Intimate Couples from an Integral Perspective with Tom Habib and Martin Ucik 2017-05-14T17:48:23+00:00


Intimate Couples from an Integral Perspective

with Tom Habib and Martin Ucik

Streamed live on May 12th 2017

00:00 Introductions , mechanics, how to comment, more about our guests, etc.

04:59 Tom starts pointing out that any progress we have made individually will be put to the test when we enter an intimate relationship – in all 4 quadrants.

06:37 Martin responds with aligning our values with our actions when with others as opposed to alone. Differences between UL and LL.

10:19 Tom promotes Sandial integral groups where people get a chance to work on emerging higher values with friends and colleagues before risking it with an intimate partner.

12:08 Heidi asks what a partner can be in regards to one’s own growth. Tom responds. Tom backs up to look at what he often sees in “integral” partners who are tied to a partner who may be at a different stage and may need to know how to promote more symmetry in their relationship. Often it’s a matter of a healthy Green “person” getting glimpses thru roll playing, for example.

14.56 Martin rephrases the difference as a first vs. third person experience with the levels. And frames this with his personal dating experiences which often ends when a lower level person feels “left out” and can’t talk with him.
20:05 So what’s in it for the 2nd tier person? Tom says that the higher level person may create a flow experience that the other may participate in, but not maintain or be cìable to recreate when alone.  We need to be more inspirational than judgemental! Don’t start with what they’re lacking! Tom roll plays often the role of the partner so the partner can see what he/she is doing and show the state as a growth medium.

24:12 Martin refers to one of the causes of the fall out between Wilber and Beck.

26:30 Martin talks about changing hat colors (no, really!) to demonstrate different levels in workshop participants.  He goes on to describe how he sets up clear expectations and boundaries in his dating life. Rules are different for him because he’s NOT a therapist.
31:28 Tom tells Martin that he is very brave to take on pre/trans confused relationships.  Many borderline examples. And goes on with UR chemistry expressed in LL  interpretations of the chemistry.
35:22 Heidi describes the difficulties and excitement of life with a borderline and Tom refers to how Warren Farrell explains this phenomenon.

39:00 Martin is including in his new book the shame (usually the) man feels in a relationship with a borderline or histrionic person.

44:30 Martin talks about setting limits and how important it is to stick with them.

47:13 Tom says who we pick is a mirror of our own developmental stage or complementary function.  How to tell if it’s not just the same old story.

49:54 Differences between northern and southern California values. Catholics are the progressives in Orange County!

51:20 Martin “pitches” his new book (in progress).  The need for transcendental purpose in relationship via our capacities for empathy (goodness), cognitive intelligence (truth), creativity (beauty), and kinesthetics (creating function) all of which affects what we can do together rather than alone.

57:23 Do we need the same passion?  Some disagreement here!

1:02:00 Tom hops in, pointing out that we each must grow INDIVIDUALLY before we can participate in these higher purposes. Many of us can connect more deeply with someone other than a spouse.  More disagreement!

1:06:00 Last words from Martin, stating that couples need to create communities!

1:08:00 Last words from Tom, stating that “we hold these speculations loosely.”

1:09:00 Thank you’s, good-byes and plans to stay connected.

How to contact:

Tom’s website is

and you can find his papers that were mentioned at
Martin’s website is

Intimate Couples from an Integral Perspective with Tom Habib and Martin Ucik

Our ability to have satisfying and functioning personal relationships seems to be a huge factor in our pursuing of happiness and fulfillment in life. Our societies function on the same principles: can we be in good relationship? Or do we fight for power and supremacy and, doing so, create war? I, Heidi, am personally convinced that our couple relationships are the training field for a thriving world community. At the moment we are living in times of separation and fight, among people of our own countries and among the countries of the world. 

At the moment we are living in times of separation and fight, among people of our own countries and among the countries of the world. In order to be able to create good global relationships we, first of all, need to work on our personal relationships. The life in a couple is very challenging, we all have had some experience with it. We need to learn to up-level these relationships. Integral theory could give us some guidelines to how to do that.

Martin Ucik has been a regular guest in The Wisdom Factory. (watch past episodes Here and Here).

After meeting Tom Habib at the European Integral Conference 2016 in Hungary we had invited him, too, to talk about his couple’s work (watch Here)

In the present episode, we want to create the space for Martin and Tom to exchange their ideas and concepts in a public conversation.

Here is what Tom writes about our topic:

Couples rarely select each other on the basis of their highest developmental potential but rather for the most stable shared stage. This Maslownian need for safety and security along with the tendency to privilege what Ucik has called the biological imperative over the transcendental potential can result in an asymmetrical relationship unable to fulfill the 2nd tier needs of one of the partners.  We suspect this discrepancy in developmental level happens quite often in the relationships of members within the integral community. Ucik is skeptical whether or not these stage differences are resolvable. Habib will argue that all members of an intimate dyad share a need for deeper connection and that unresolved issues by both members in each quadrant result in arrested development.  Please join Habib & Ucik at the Wisdom Factory where they will explore intimate couple dynamics including LL ideals and primary fantasies. They will also discuss LR processes that manage regression and balancing the basic need for connection with the need for autonomy, how attempts at communion can result in merger anxiety, the value of shifting from curiosity to compassion and maintaining the polarity between the feminine and the masculine, and more.

Click on the links below to find links to Martin’s and Tom’s books 

Integral Relationships: A Manual for Men


The Evolutionary Human – co-authored by Martin Ucik

The Evolutionary Human on AMAZON

If These Walls Could Talk: A Therapist Reveals Stories of Change and How They will Work for You

Dr Thomas Habibs book on AMAZON


portrait of Martin Ucik

portrait of Martin Ucik

Martin Ucik was born in West-Germany in 1957, grew up in a happy family, studied Electrical Engineering, and founded a successful international music-soft and hardware publishing company in 1982. He came to the US in 1995 with his wife and children to serve as President of HOHNER MIDIA. Eckhart Tolle trained him as a spiritual group facilitator in 2003. Heartfelt conversations in his Power of Now group and the end of his 14 year marriage led him to a deeper interest in male-female relationship dynamics.  He founded, an Association for Healthy Relationships.

In 2006 he became an avid student of Ken Wilber’s Integral philosophy.

Not finding any books that took an integral approach to dating and the co-creation of healthy love relationships, he began to write the widely acclaimed “Integral Relationships: A Manual for Men“, which was published in July 2010.

He lives in Sherman Oaks, and Santa Rosa, California, as well as in Germany, and works as President and CEO for Sommer cable America and as strategic business consultant  for the Hollywood, CA based Pro Audio distribution firm

“Hopefully people will get a sense of just how complete this book is. Honestly, I haven’t seen anything quite like it—it’s very impressive.” Ken Wilber

Visit Martin’s website


Thomas Habib is a clinical psychologist in San Juan Capistrano, California and specializes in couples therapy. He was founder and managing partner in a private group practice for 26 years consisting of clinical psychologist, psychiatrist and interns. He is also adjunct faculty at Center for Integrative Psychology within the California School of Professional Psychology, San Diego. As Physician Well Being Chair at a local Hospital where he applies integral principals and state experiences in monthly presentations. He is currently undertaking a study of couples looking at the pre-transcendent fantasies.


Please check out our previous conversation with Dr. Thomas (Tom) Habib here

And the recording of his presentation on the European Integral Conference 2016 in Hungary HERE