Integral community chat2019-04-15T11:50:07+00:00

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The integral level of development: second tier stages


Notes by Karen Vorhees below TIMESTAMPS

1:47 – Intro, Abundance not scarcity, seeing the first 6 stages.

4:46 – self awareness of stages, interpersonal awareness

6:07 – nuance, hierarchy, development, seeing wholeness and connection,

8:08 – Integral inclusivity vs Green, greater complexity,

10:40 – Leap beyond systemic thinking of Modern, free from abstraction and categorization,

13:23 – Integral feels different, beyond right and wrong,

15:39 – inspirational energy flow, we space

17:10 – from green to Integral, what stage am I in right now?

20:10 – putting on different “hats” meta awareness

20:42 – levity, being open to being wrong/changing mind,

23:39 – chakras and Integral, excitement,purpose,

25:44 – transition between stages, boundaries

29:23 – using rules, showing up, collective responsibility,

32:12 – NVC and 2nd tier,

34:20 – leadership,

36:30 – developmental lines, averaging center of gravity,

38:45 – Gebser and Integral time, presence, Integral=too much mental

43:10 – Gebser’s Integral=3rd tier, favoring Intellectual line

48:00 – art, aesthetics, experiencing the stages, openness,

50:51 – struggling with headiness, both and, Yellow vs. Turquoise

53:37 – pushing off from Green, working to solutions,

55: 37 – between mental and beyond

57:26 – shift to Integral, practical use of Integral,

1:00:34 – embodying lower levels, healthy lower stages,

1:03:50 – Aurobindo Integral Yoga, ascending and descending

1:10:37 –  cycles and time slides

1:13:07 – time is intrinsic to Integral structure, mental vs. transpersonal, 2nd vs 3rd tier, unstuck from 1D time,

1:16:00 – Jung and higher states, expanded consciousness,

1:19:13 – Terri O Fallon matrix,

1:21:41 – closing

Timestamps taken by Ryan

Attributes of Second Tier

KSV’s notes from the Integral Sunday Zoom Chat Group April 14, 2019

As we move on to each next-arising stage level, we go from less conscious to more conscious, transcending and eventually including the prior-arising levels. At the move from First Tier to Second Tier, here are some qualities that can arise:

  • With second tier we begin to come from an experiential place of abundance in all quadrants, rather than from scarcity as we did in the prior-arising six levels.
  • We have less anxiety. We no longer have to hold up an embattled “I’m right and therefore you are wrong if you differ from me” ego stance.
  • At the same time we are less sure of ourselves mentally. The vastness of possibilities that open out can be overwhelming, disorienting and distressing, even to the point of depression.
  • Transcendent states begin to seep into waking awareness even before we reach Third Tier. It takes ever finer discernment to distinguish between states and stages, and even between the different stages.
  • We grow more open to Being in all ways.
  • Our waking awareness begins transcend (and include!) the limits of three-dimensional space and one-dimensional time, per C. G. Jung’s “box system.”
  • We begin to become aware of how profoundly everything is interconnected. We intuit that there is a purpose; a drive to existence. (Dare we say, a telos)?
  • New levels of energy become available to us.
  • With this comes an increased sense of stewardship for all; why everyone matters; how precious is all that exists.
  • What was formerly conflict and clash can become a dance of reciprocal energies.
  • At the same time, new difficulties can arise as shadow materials arise into waking awareness and get in our faces.
  • To balance this, we become able to set appropriate boundaries that are stronger and clearer than before.
  • We are able to reclaim a personal agency, an authority, that was often suppressed at the previous stage (green).
  • With this comes an increased awareness of personal responsibility for our own inner emotional processes and our interactions with others.
  • We begin to perceive the subtle energies of “we-space” and develop new levels of skill in our interactions with others.
  • New levels of creativity, intelligence and wisdom open to us.


The green level of development


00:00 – introductions

3:50 – guided meditation by Natalie

10:11 – check ins, social justice,

13:30 – 60’s civil rights, equal opportunity vs equal outcome, hierarchy,

23:00 – Green and awesome music,

25:20 – mean Green meme, different flavors of Green

29:40 – postmodernism’s deconstruction of modernity, positive parts of Green,

34:20 – Green as ecological concern

39:50 – baby boomers, 1968, Foucault and deconstruction of humanities,

45:26 – Hawaiian Green without social justice ideology, Green and social consciousness

53:14 – Green and presence, permaculture, back to the land,

53:36 – Green and art,

58:11 – Good sides of Foucault and postmodernism,

1:04:32 – Postmodern art was rebellion against beauty,

1:08:00 – Map and the territory, fragmentation, pastiche,

1:14:30 – understanding networks and systems, jumping to Integral

1:16:25 – closing statements, Green and existential meaning crises, WW2

Timestamps taken by Ryan


The orange level of development


00:00 – introductions
13:27 – Orange can be intimidating, achievement, rationality
16:57 – Orange and Shadow, sense of suppression, finding purpose,
20:10 – Movement from Blue to Orange, collective vs. individual rationality
21:49 – Orange emphasis on getting things done, objective outer world, results justify the means,
22:50 – Gebser’s mental structure and Orange. Individual and directive. “I-ness” – sucking meaning out of the world into the mind
26:28 – Orange and meritocracy, shadow of inferiority and exclusion
27:41 – Withdrawing the mind from the world, alienation, division
30:50 – Mental/Orange as “cutting” and “dissection” – how to reconnect
39:20 — limitations of Orange, going hyperational
47:40 – What is the religion of Orange
48:30 – Orange and atheistic reductionism, mechanistic
50:10 – Orange spirituality
54:11 – Different kinds of Orange and States
57:00 – deterioration of Orange over time, breaking down to unite
1:03:54 – Speciation, differentiation, biological processes in nature
1:10:20 – Orange and the body or lack thereof, suffering as a path to transcend a stage
1:13:59 – Connecting with the spirit of Orange, backlashing against prior stage,
1:15:30 – askesis, mental exercise and aerobics,
1:19:52 – moving from Orange to Green via curiosity
1:21:03 – check outs


Timestamps taken by Ryan


The blue level of development


3:25 — check ins

14:25 – Ginny Whitelaw is awesome

15:13 – Personal sharing about Blue

26:40 – problems with unprocessed Blue

31:10 – Blue is the beginning of controlling the ego

32:00 – dangers of radical traditionalists

34:00 – Appreciating the positive parts of Blue, Christianity, “salt of the earth” goodness, service, devotion, high character, people are happier,

45:20 – historical perspective on Blue

46:10 – Blue and free will, Good vs. Evil, problems with Shadow

51:00 – How to properly frame an issue, Blue and ethical responsibility and altitudes, “moral fiber”

1:01:00 – Blue and Shadow

1:05:00 – Communicating/relating with Blue

1:13:00 – Blue and barriers

1:15:30 – Shadow vs. Character Flaw

1:20:00 – Trump and the American Shadow

1:33:30 – Closing Remarks on Blue – Integrating Blue with Green, Blue causes reactions in people, need structure,

1:41:00 – Daminao’s platform

Timestamps taken by Ryan


The “purple” level of development


to :05– a brief recap of last week’s Beige conversation

:06-:25 personal sharing about the elements of Purple
:25–shadow side of Purple
:35–current daily life–magical thinking; how does purple inform/or leak through green?
:37 –possibility for expanded perspectives at Green
:38 gifts of and reverence for Purple–oneness, nondifferentiated
:40–naive acceptance, fatalism (“will of the spirits’) how to rescue purple from the pre-trans fallacy of new age green
:44–18th gothic novels (Dracula Frankenstein), Stephen King novels, balancing the reverence with the horror of nature
:47–call for not regressing, using the toolkits of the next memes to inform ‘include AND transcend” (or integrate)
:53–when is the emergences of the capacity for self-reflection? at the last stages of purple moving to green? Me moves to I.
:58 How does purple show up for the better or worse throughout the following memes?
1:10-How does purple show up in the second tier with more complexity online? (for better or worse)
1:07–where does negligence of the environment start to show up?
1:20_ talk on Damiano’s new networking site we can join.

notes taken by Kate Crisp


The “beige” level of development


0: housekeeping

1:15 Round of checkins, regarding the beige stage of development

From 18: discussion on beige starts Paul: Body, Trauma, etc.

19: Karen V compares beige to the other stages and what we can do wherever we are suppressing and repressing beige.

22:30 Heidi orients the discussion on WHAT is beige for us and others. Fundamental needs, newborn babys.  What is the characteristic of beige. Levels of development and continuous part of us

24 Pre-verbal, no real diferentiation. Early experience tied with causal body. Fear at that stage becomes eternal state of panic, The earlier those experiences are, the more that fear will persist. No good tactics to deal with that. What are the best ways to deal with that? Efficient tools?

26:30 Body language. Paul shares, dangerous energy.

28 homo sapiens started 200.000years ago, with some sort of language. Expressions of emotions.

31: rudimentary spoken language, no separate self-sense

33 differentiation child bearing more chaos today than then. Any experience happens in an unclear i-space. No differentation of quadrants.

35 Hunter gather tribes.  Child his held all the time. Child feeling safe as lack of resources, needs develop a physical connection, no sense of aloneness when you grow in a tribe

38 Karen V: protection against preditors when holding the child all the time – as opposed to crip-death. Paul: Coming of age = pain.

39; kate: panic when not hearing the voice of the mother when separated with birth in orphans.

41: Ronald = orphan and felt a bodily connection when he finally met his mother. Physiology tricked him althoiugh in a good adoptive family. Lime desease: you have taken care for your body, otherwise you wouldn’t be alive today. Recovering from the early stage development.

44 Natalie in stomach: inability to digest experience. Paul: digestion shuts down.

Damiano: early issues: if early interpretation is fear, awakeining is more difficult, also shadowwork etc, : people don’t have a “file” for happiness. Bring back imagination. Different cultures need different practices.

48 Karen V: undifferentiated potential 100.000 years ago: all emotions mixed, other stages accessible undifferentiated. Westners wounded at lower levels= opening possible to being flooded by higher states, even when unhealthy on lower levels.. ?

50 Out of body experiences, access to higher states can be problematic to people who have too many antennas.

53 D: Cardiac coherence: western societies have a lot of stress, fosters beige. Natalie: trust. Deregulate the nervous system without TRYING to feel safe. Kate: trauma in Tibet, too.

K: beige is also about GOOD feelings. Athletes

Ronald: gone inward because with his history survival was only this way. Altered states. MAybe people had a harder time with stage development and went into states development.

Ryan: ANANDA in college: spiritual path goes UP, having energetic blocks, needing to go DOWN.

1.00. Spiritual breakthrough when he went down to beige and death in meditation. Went into something greater1:02 About Don Beck – no spirituality

Natalie + Paul: both higher and lower stages together. Dealing with death: difficult not to go into spiritual or existental.

06: violence in beige. Own it with Martial Arts. Female violence. Karen about her heroine who is expressing violence: brutal nature, violence to take care of oneself

11: Paul: contrast men-women in beige. Different concepts and values.

15:Ronald:  survivorship together with the higher stages: safety first, survival first in all stages. Reclaim body trust after rape/abuse.

17 Natalie bioenergetic level: small hips, jaw, hips, feet connected. Work with beige, do physical exercise.

Paul: World has become less violent, aötogether.

20 Hans Rosling: gapminder.

22 N:  healthier systems on the LR, increasing levels of freedom, integral theory hasn’t come up with economical system. Adaptive freedom. Compelled yes, but not alienation. Much is locked in beige because we need to pay the bills.  We need to talk about LR, to engineer enlightenment. Coding society possible.

Agony and extasy existentail angst and singularity

(The recording starts shortly after the beginning of the presentation by Karen Voorhees)

Non-Violent Communication
Intro by Natalie and Karen Voorhees


Natalie shares some NVC frameworks for this conversation.
And also some links to NVC frameworks: This appears in the video)

And Karla McLaren’s The Language of Emotions:
A summary:
The questions that emotions indicate…
Anger:   Indicates a boundary has been ignored or prematurely released.
              What can be restored?
              What can be protected?
Shame:  Is there a real, fixable mistake? If yes, what action can be taken? What lesson can you learn, incorporate in to your living?
              If no, Is there an external image I’ve absorbed and need to release?
Fear:     What supportive action can be taken?
             (can include the action of consciously, purposely doing nothing)
             (often we increase our activity of things unrelated the appropriate action when experiencing chronic anxiety. Sometimes this works! Sometimes it doesn’t. What are the layers of our anxiety? What do they point to? Is the action about self or other? Is there actually an appropriate action? If not, is the appropriate action patience or acceptance, of self or other… including something we do not want to include, letting go of something we do not want to let go of? Are we holding on to a limiting belief in lieu of holding greater complexity or exploring the mystery…are we in the middle of a growing pain?)
Content/Happy: What am I satisfied with?
                          What can I consciously celebrate in self or other?
Sad:      What must be released?
              What must be rejuvenated?
Disgust: What has fallen in to my shadow?
              What have I rejected in myself that I reject in others?
              What needs to be reintegrated?

(Before the video started)

Natalie and Karen’s presentation on NVC.

NVC is the one thing that should be added to Wilber’s Integral model (Karen).

NVC is a 4 step recipe. It retrains the way of think and communicate.

0:00 – NVC principles

3:40 – NVC works unilaterally

5:44 – NVC in action

6:15 – start with reflection

7:45 – observation vs. evaluation

9:00 – feelings vs. victim verbs

10:30 – empathy is curiosity

15:00 – its OK to guess wrong

18:00 – Empathetic interruption

19:50 – NVC is tool of self empathy first

25:08 – value of pausing

28:31 – NVC and authenticity

37:50 – NVC can be forceful

42:00 – NVC and shadow work

57:20 – dissolving ego vs. integrating shadow

1:09:30 – importance of 1st tier stages

1:15:30 – closing remarks

Timestamps taken by Ryan


Exploring integral together.
Main topic: The red level of consciousness


0:00 Check-ins and suggestions for conversation:

  • Incorporating adult Integral programming in Unitarian Church. – Karen V.
  • Shadow @ higher stages w. Jeff Salzman & Kim Barta. – Karen N.
  • How to communicate and relate with people at different stages: casual, “full” relationship,couples at different stages. – Ron
  • Integrating red. Also, so much from so many stages to re-integrate – overwhelmed. – Paul
  • Refining language to describe the difference between green and teal inclusivity. – Natalie
  • Supporting desire to explore integrating red and also relating with people at different stages. -Ryan

0:20 Reintegrating red in ourselves. Healthy vs. unhealthy at every stage.

0:28 Toxic red is disavowed anger.
“Seeing red”: anything we disagree with interpreted as domination.
Narcissism in red.
Narcissism in green. The world can and should be changed… done in a narcissistic pursuit… others should match my values.

0:30 Healthy red is about protection.

0:35 Healthy red helps break up complacency.
Disagreement can become a joyful confrontation rather than a domination competition. Healthy red can fill the void of feeling unable to do something.

0:35 Integral stage often includes really wanting to do something in the world – can’t do this without red.

How red is expressed in other levels, like orange and teal.

0:45 Red supports individuation. “I am a separate being in the world and I am going to express myself.”

Red’s real joy is in serving life – i.e. the warrior.

0:42 Blue arose to suppress red.
American and European differences in red suppression.

0:50 To cultivate helathy red, give them a value or something they want to defend. Plug the raw tribalism in to the beloved community and community values. This gives life meaning.

0:52 If we have healthy boundaries we can play more.

0:56 Uniformly defensive vs. permeably protective. Boundaries are essential to beingness.

0:58 Non-violent Communication.

1:01 How to converse and disagree without spiraling down in to red. (A podcast on this was suggested… I didn’t get the name.)

1:04 Integral gaming possibilities and practicing healthy red.

1:20 NVC use in therapies. Result: increased emotional intelligence, increased mindfulness, increased self-empathy and understanding reality.
Healthy use of NVC emphasizes largely self-empathy and emotional intelligence, which supports one’s maturity and empathy for others when engaging in disagreement.

Use of NVC in supporting red evolving in to blue. Example of using NVC in prison groups, and people evolving to feel a sense of purpose and contribution.

1:23 Red-themed books that are not explicitly Integral framework… to better understand red.

Timestamps taken by Natalie


Exploring integral together.
Topics: what makes someone “integral”? Spirituality and its abuse by gurus – is that possible in integral? The emphasis of the upper left quadrant, especially spirituality, not so much the lower right?
Many more co-creative topics from our 7-fold perspectives.

Resource by Ryan

The website enlivening edge which contains many wonderful articles on Integral initiatives:

Terry Pattens New Republic of the Heart website hosts many of these resources:

Integral leadership review also contains a plenitude of integral resources:

3_Theory U


First half hour:  people introduce themselves and organisation agreements and topic finding
from about min 34 we talk about the “Green Meme”

Collection of topics of interest:

Karen Vorhees: How to deal with GREEN
Paul: Spiral Dynamics in culture and politics
Damiano:Integral approach as guideline for therapy and healing, practical applications of integral, i.e. take a topic from the news and look at it from an integral perspective
Karen N: Understanding Green
Karen S: learning about Integral
Ryan: green issues from the minority perspective


First half hour:  people introduce themselves and organisation agreements and topic finding
from about min 34 we talk about the “Green Meme”

Collection of topics of interest:

Karen Vorhees: How to deal with GREEN
Paul: Spiral Dynamics in culture and politics
Damiano:Integral approach as guideline for therapy and healing, practical applications of integral, i.e. take a topic from the news and look at it from an integral perspective
Karen N: Understanding Green
Karen S: learning about Integral
Ryan: green issues from the minority perspective


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