YEAR 2109 EPISODE 4 + 5
April 16th and May 14th

In second generation – cleaning our collective history


The last meeting we talked about resilience and emotional intelligence. This led to the question: How do we live our common history? How resilient are we? How were our parents who were part of the perpetrators or of the victims in an inhumane regime? what do we still carry with us although we were not present personally and how can we do some shadow work and clean up the past?

We as the second generation of perpetrators and victims of the second world war come together to inquire into the impact and residue still present in our lives.

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The first conversation on this topic took place on April 16th, 2019

Women Matters April 2019 Healing the past

0:00 Heidi’s intro to the topic and share of a recent experience connected to the evil of war behavior.

4:25 Luna from America share the experience of her mother and grandmother. Through constellation work she sees how much we ALL are affected by war and having to flee our territories. A history of hiding. The danger of repetition because of the encoded trauma in all of us.

7:10 Viktoria from Hungary and East Germany. Hungary has pushed aside the question of guilt with the effect of present political situation. East Germany: Dark stuff in the air – “something is wrong”, politics of fear and the impact on children. Psychology of hiding.

11:35 Monia born in 1941, witnessing the war impact in Vienna. Suspicion of grownups, helplessness, fear, bomb impacts, memory of the Russians. Women raped all over the country, impact. We never talk about that! Father refused the party which had impact on him. A white Teddy Bear from Paris.

17:45 Gertraud from 1956. Her father was remembering war in every location which resembles a place where he was in the war. He still lived in the war and sort of overloaded the family with his stories, but good that he talked. She never dared to ask him how many people died by his operating in a trunk. Prisoner of war of Amercans for 4 years. Her mother lost her brother + other family member “missed”. Not being sure what has happened to the missed people. In countrsie survival was easier.

24:45 European constellation in Hungary IEC. Gertraud was the “European soil”. Thousands of years of blood soaked in the soil. Not only the last war.

26:15 Monia adds: Missing family member, grandmother waited for the return until her death. Being raped by a foreign army,

27:27 Tammy from Canada, her dad was born in 1940. Ongoing war in Canada, silent. The land was taken over. Generations of blood in the land. Hiding of truth in Canada. The war is not over there and not even acknowledged that it happened. Indigenous communities and still their children are taken away to break with their own culture.

32:45 Heidi. Mark: America has never worked on the guilt. Conversations about war was random. Visits of comrades telling stories, the good ones. Human attempt to handle the necessity of being enemies. Oncle died, silence. Also in school, feeling of depression inherited and not knowing what it was about. Coburg, the first city with a Nazi major, with the acceptance of the unjust. Parents grew up in this atmosphere. No help to understand such a situation as a child.

38:36 Tammy: what is valuable to learn? Heidi: Don’t forget and stop the beginnings. Be courageous and say NO at the right moment. Shadow work and find out about yourself and what you would be able to do in critical situations.

41:28 Gertraud shared the story of the wife of a guardian of the concentration camp. “I never said anything”. Sometimes you have to endure. An interview with Toy Blair: The ultra left doesn’t know that when they fight with the ultra right, they will win”. Being against is not the right way.

44:10 Heidi shares the message of the soldier: “we are only following orders”

44:45 Monia: Problem today:nobody can tell me what I have to do. How can you have not forget then? How would the young generation allow to be told something? She has some access to her grandchilds because of equilibrium which most people don’t have. Looking back on your life you see certain patterns. Misinterpretation of her father who never spoke about these things. But contact to the war comrades.

48:20 Dorothy arrives, she was wrong with the hour. Freudscher error? Se brings some light moments into the situation.

51:00 Dorothy talks about her parents, heartbreak and sadness of mother, rage in Father about the humiliation before they left Vienna. He went on outwardly resilient, inwardly he carried rage and never felt good about himself despite all success. Next generation group in Portland, monitoring the stories: an opening of despair and anger into the sharing and interest. Celebrating the fact that we moved on.

55:25 Ghe story of the flight. In 42 born she felt truly American, not her mother, but father became American man.

57:25 Gertraud referring to Tammy: how can we be aware and uncover and create the future in another way without being stuck in the past.

59:00 Dorothy: the meaning of her being an hour late for the first time and with that topic.

59:30 Viktoria: this is only the beginning. We have all in our soles, the victim and the aggressor. It can come out. Who we would trust not become an aggressor any more. Meditators? Inner journey because they realised that they could become the aggressors. Paradigm shift: we need to go within and change ourselves. Not rely on change in the outside world.

1:03:55 Tammy: How can I own? Understanding the trauma from our own experience, how and where we can take responsibility and transform in the inside.

1:04:20 Monia: we are only scratching the surface. It is our responsibility to go deeper. It is necessary.

1:05:20 Luna: What is asked from us, the WE-NESS, people who are wanting to look in order to heal. A movement happening everywhere.  Relationship perpetrator and victim: a new game is asked, not about good and bad but healing the divide and what we can be as human beings to not repeat that game.

1:07:40 Dorothy: a gift. Grateful.Beginning to trust.

1:08:50 Heidi: Lightness in the midst of an red outburst which makes war. Preoccupied about the many people who are still in red.  Expression gratefulness for this conversation. Future of coming together for this topic.

The second conversation on this topic took place on May 14th, 2019

Women Matters May 2019 Healing the past

0:00 Intro Heidi

1:13 Dorothy . synchronicity around “second generation” since our first talk on the topic. Starts to ask questions with 77!

3:09 Monia: the first time she talks this way to second generation jewish people. A sensitive subject to her.  Reading “Tertia lingua imperii” – The language of the 3rd reich. We still use many phrases from that area! (on Amazon.com on Amazon.de)

4:45 Gertraud: War was present in father’s memory. Her wedding anniversary with very diverse people present with whom they also talked about genocide and the experience in different countries. The tabus in different countries, Germany is quite open in talking and reading. (Anne Frank: Diary, (In English in German)  “When Hitler stole the pink rabbit” (In English, in German)

7:40 Luna: Traumatology workshop: emersed into the effects of war. We continue to inact war in our relationships and inside of us.

9:00 Heidi lays out the topic for the conversation

9:35 Viktoria.

10:10 Luna we are at the edge of what was before. We are living fractals of the dramas of war. Patterns and synchronicities seen systemically. Marks of events in DNA and territories. Flash points. How to heal? Representatives of both sides of the conflict need to come and grief together.

15:15 D: perfect synchronicity. She talks about her healing with her daughter in law to cut through the patterns of her father. How she created peace and gave up her inherited perpetrator role and could come into compassion and release the energetic prison. It is never too late! Declaration of independence

20:07 M: Is the collective DNA triggered in us? The burning of Notre Dame evoke a memory. Of the burning cathedral in Dresda. Hiroshima: how is it possible to inflict so much pain on people next door? Memorial culture in Austria. How can we stop that pattern? What can we women individual do to change those pattern?

23:48 G: Notre dame as a symbol of the unbreakable, lasting… Shares an experience in Bosnia where people live in houses with holes in the houses everywhere. European Union is a PEACE PROJECT! How can we give up the wish to return to nationalism which brought us the wars.

27:30 H: young people do not know much about the past, Don’t want to know. Psychologically we are not made for eternal peace, substitution activities to live the aggressivity. Physical release of the tensions needed.

30:25 Luna: her family system: massacre and suicide: art as enacting the positive inheritance. “The fire is beautiful in the fireplace, but not in the middle of the room!” – active creation.

32:12 V: like in martial arts.  She also was immersed in the topic since our first talk to the topic. She also wants to apologize for what has happened, but how to do it for something what happened before you are born? She is Hungarian (although identifies with many cultures) and feels shame. Hungary hasn’t done anything, still in phase of denial. At the same time Nazi is growing again in the country. “ ⅓ of the population killed another 3rd of the population where the other 3rd was watching and didn’t do anything” – And I AM WATCHING now! Better say 33%, so 1% is people who did something actively. How can we get into that 1%?

37:10 D: on a personal level there are many ways to do it. And we ARE DOING IT.

38:20 V: after the elections she was shocked and felt that she should go into politics.  Szebes Maria; “The red Lion” , Nazis and Communists burnt her books. She communicated to Viktoria Creating safe places and do underground work, spirituality only will fight the Nazis!

41:10 G: Not be complacent with being in 1%. Actionism isn’t the answer, but there is action be done. She shares about a man on her party who seemed to hold the space by being quiet, being just there  spreading out joyful energy. Ahimsa = Nothing in me wants to harm anybody. Living that makes a difference in our response. “What in me causes that people need to be aggressive against me?”

44:50 M: Aurobindo his story as a terrorist who learned meditating and created the peace energy during the trial so that he was not sentenced. She asks her classmate about memories of the war and how it is still alive. Some of them didn’t want to reflect on their own life, just be busy. Everybody at their level of consciousness! Some replied in depth.

48:10 H: always enough food at home to feed people if they should arrive, cannot throw away food. The nuns picking cherries.

49:50 D: talks about Ruth Linderman who left Vienna with 5 and now she goes everywhere in schools to tell her story. In Oregon for first time Holocaust and WWII finally will enter the school books! Her husband was activist to mobilize about climate change. Now he is returning to his art and put his sense of urgency and love into his art work and express it that way.

53:05 V: Michael Ende about environmental issues: with slogans you cannot save the tree, Stopping to cut trees and love them will make a difference. In society we consider art as secondary, something “nice”, but actually it is the other way round. Art can make a greater impact by touching people  deeply instead of slogans. “The work is done when it touched your heart!”

55:35 G: project in Bulgaria where the teach street kids classical music. For her celebration she asked for donation for an organisation which works for inclusion of refugees.  Contribute and be in connection, being conscious about we want to be together. “ If you take it for granted you lose it!”

59:40 Luna check out. “Tell the truth!” to be of that 1%. “Truth is a casualty of war” – coming together and telling the truth! Making the unconscious conscious and recognizing our parts does change things.  Quote from Mother Teresa: “if you really want to create peace in the world, go home and love your family!”

1:01:45 M: loving your family! Include men in that conversation?

1:03 V:  The feeling and work is continuing. Michael ende doesn’t like the word “Toleranz” . Tolerating foreigners is not really a compliment for them. But inviting diversity because it is good for me; more interesting in so many ways! Getting to know each other is the best way to not have things like Holocaust happen again!. Traveling is a good way to get to know each other: no-one is the enemy, except our own inner forces which we haven’t tamed yet.

1:05:15 D: The topic was closeted and unconscious. Now opening. Question: WHY jews we universally are disliked? Her behavior? What is it that they (and other groups) are so much hated.

1:08:05 Monia doesn’t feel so well in Vienna anymore because it has changed a lot

1:08:50 H: why do we need scapegoats? She answered to D: it has to do with ENVY.

Check out: talking about these things is our part to get into the 1%. Uneasiness about my German past is diminishing.

Books mentioned during the conversation


Gertraud Wegst. Portrait.

Gertraud Wegst

Portrait of Monika Frühwirth

Monia Fruehwirth

Luna Ceovelli

Luna Ceovell

Dorothy Stern Kucha

Dorothy Stern Kucha


Heidi Hornlein

Viktoria Duda

Viktoria Duda

Tammy Lea Meyer

Tammy Lea Meyer

Elizabeth Debold

Elizabeth Debold