We didn’t expect to be challenged on this point as Heidi and I had each already committed to doing that Growth thing together.  It was included as a major part of the agreements we had made (and renew at each anniversary) before plunging into our relationship. 

How did this challenge happen?  

Let’s back up just a few days. As an installment of our Conversations that Matter series on our website, thewisdomfactory.net, we were interviewing two relationship experts, Dr. Thomas Habib, a successful psychoanalyst in San Diego with decades of clinical experience, and Martin Ucik, author of the classic “Integral Relationships: A Manual for Men.

How it gets complicated.

Both are well established and well known and fluently “speak” Integral Theory and Spiral Dynamics.  Our show was off to the races and the conversation flowed from the first. We were so “in synch”  all around that we didn’t mind, indeed hardly noticed, that we all pretty much agreed on everything such as:

  1. Intimate relationships between two people at different levels of growth (consciousness) is often difficult to maintain.
  2. The more advanced of the two can patiently help the other, but it’s HARD work
  3.  The lesser advanced will often feel left out, unable to understand the other.
  4. Confusion between first person experience and 3rd person perspective can abound.
  5. Classic pre/trans confusion: Life with borderlines and histrionics is an adventure!
  6.  Martin brings up the shame (especially in men) in such relationships.
  7. The importance of boundaries and setting limits to prevent mayhem.
  8. Sharing the same passions – or different passions?
  9. ETC!!

But you can do it separately.

Though Heidi and I could relate as these difficulties were examined, we never felt that our commitment was being challenged as very (or overly) ambitious.  But we began to hear a nagging theme from Tom, who eventually, at the end the hour we had scheduled for the show, spoke more openly of the elephant in the living room.  He spoke of his experience with integral groups where individuals worked with other group members rather than with intimate partners.  He saw that progress was easier to make manifest in such a milieu than was his experience working with couples directly.

Portrait of Martin Ucik

Martin Ucik

Often with couples, if I understand Tom’s point clearly, there is a lot of “baggage” that actually detracts from one or both individual’s efforts to grow.  But with peers in a group, this baggage is absent or can fall away more easily with no risk to a primary relationship. That difference alone can allow growth to comparatively flourish!

Which way to go?

So, one possibility is that Heidi and I are healthy enough, with neither borderlines nor histrionics in our pathologies, so that we are actually helping each other grow as we bump along in our daily lives.  Or possibly we’re unknowingly getting in each other’s way and not noticing or admitting that others in other roles might provide a more “efficient” route to growth.



You, dear reader, though you may not know us personally, your speculation – or perhaps your personal story – might throw some light on this question.  Let us know!

You can watch this interview (with timestamps) HERE: