Ageing and Longevity

### Summary of Video Content: Women Matters Discussion on Aging, Well-being, and Life Transitions

This video features a reflective and intimate group conversation among women from the “Wisdom Factory,” centered around themes of aging, well-being, life transitions, and the experience of illness and death. The dialogue interweaves personal stories, scientific insights, and philosophical reflections, creating a nuanced exploration of how to live well in later life.

—

### Key Highlights and Themes

– **Personal Check-ins and Life Updates:**
– Participants share their current emotional and life states, ranging from peaceful introspection and winter hibernation to coping with sudden illness and loss.
– One member discusses coaching a young female CEO successor, highlighting the positive dynamics of mentorship and leadership transition.
– A poignant story is shared about a friend diagnosed with Creutzfeldt-Jakob disease (human form of “mad cow” disease), illustrating the sudden and devastating impact of illness.
– Another participant recounts learning to ski despite injury, symbolizing perseverance and joy in new experiences.
– Reflections on the death of a medical doctor uncle who chose medical aid in dying (MAID), emphasizing acceptance and agency at end of life.

– **Scientific Insights on Aging and Happiness:**
– Discussion centers on a podcast and research from the Stanford Longevity Center about why older people tend to be happier.
– **Key findings include:**
– **Happiness in older adults is linked to psychological well-being, not longevity alone.**
– Older adults tend to **hone and cherish close, meaningful relationships** rather than continuously expanding social circles.
– They **recall positive memories more than negative ones**, unlike younger people who remember both.
– **Presence and living in the moment** are more prevalent in older adults, not due to cognitive decline or denial, but a genuine engagement with the present.
– **Forgiveness and letting go of regrets or anger** contribute to greater peace and contentment.
– These findings refute assumptions that older adults are happy because of memory loss or masking depression.

– **Reflections on Aging, Identity, and Purpose:**
– Several participants discuss the challenges of aging, including feeling “aged out” professionally despite being capable and experienced.
– The tension between societal ageism and personal desire to continue contributing creatively and professionally is explored.
– The liberating experience of retirement and reduced stress is contrasted with the loss of professional identity and purpose.
– Spiritual and philosophical approaches, including **Buddhism** and **integral theory**, are mentioned as frameworks supporting acceptance, presence, and conscious aging.
– The role of relationships, including new romantic partnerships in later life, is underscored as vital for emotional growth and healing.

– **Confronting Death and Preparing for a Peaceful Passing:**
– A touching story is shared about a mother’s peaceful passing, illustrating acceptance and surrender with the phrase, “**It is like it is**.”
– Participants express curiosity and concern about how to prepare spiritually and psychologically to “smile at death” or pass peacefully.
– Suggested approaches include spiritual teachings such as **The Tibetan Book of Living and Dying** and literature on death and dying by Olivia Hopeella.
– The group acknowledges the importance of exploring expectations about aging, illness, and death as a future topic.

—

### Timeline of Key Discussion Points

| Time Range | Topic/Content Summary |
|——————|————————————————————————————————–|
| 00:00 – 00:07 | Personal check-ins: peaceful winter moments, leadership coaching, illness diagnosis story |
| 00:07 – 00:14 | Skiing accomplishment, reflections on end-of-life choices, research preparation |
| 00:14 – 00:22 | Emotional reactions to illness and suffering; introduction to aging and happiness podcast |
| 00:22 – 00:30 | Summary of scientific findings on aging and happiness; discussion of positivity and presence |
| 00:30 – 00:37 | Personal experiences with aging, retirement, and loss of professional roles |
| 00:37 – 00:45 | Role of relationships and therapy in aging; new romantic partnership dynamics |
| 00:45 – 00:51 | Integral theory and its limited direct application to aging; spiritual acceptance and peace |
| 00:51 – 00:58 | Stories of peaceful death; preparation for death; planning continuation of the topic |

—

### Table: Scientific Findings on Older Adults’ Well-being

| Finding | Description |
|———————————|————————————————————————————————-|
| Focus on Existing Relationships | Older adults prefer deepening existing close relationships rather than expanding social circles.|
| Positive Memory Bias | Older adults recall more positive memories compared to younger adults who recall both positive and negative ones. |
| Presence in the Moment | Older adults live more fully in the present moment, not due to cognitive decline or denial. |
| Forgiveness and Letting Go | Greater peace arises from releasing regrets, anger, and grudges accumulated over life. |
| Well-being Over Longevity | Happiness is related to quality of life and psychological well-being, not merely lifespan length.|

—

### Key Insights

– **Aging can bring enhanced psychological well-being through presence, forgiveness, and valuing deep connections.**
– **Sudden illness and loss profoundly impact perceptions of mortality and underscore the importance of support and compassion.**
– **Retirement and aging challenge identity, purpose, and societal roles, often leading to feelings of being undervalued despite continued capability and wisdom.**
– **Spiritual and philosophical frameworks offer valuable tools for navigating aging, death, and finding peace.**
– **Preparing for death with acceptance and peace is a meaningful goal, meriting further exploration and practical guidance.**

—

### Concluding Notes

The conversation reflects a

**holistic and compassionate approach to aging*

*, weaving together personal narratives, scientific research, and spiritual reflections. It emphasizes the importance of **presence, meaningful relationships, and forgiveness in cultivating happiness in later life. The dialogue also highlights the realities of *

*ageism, loss of professional roles, and confronting mortality

**, while suggesting pathways toward **peaceful acceptance and preparation for death

**. Future discussions aim to deepen understanding of expectations, preparation for dying, and maintaining well-being through life’s final stages.

00:00:02
We are again meeting the women matters of the wisdom factory. It is already end of February almost, isn’t it? The year is going ahead. It is so quick. It is incredible. Uh we will see what we are talking about today. First, as always, the check round and as Mona has to do something as I see I invite you, Lorine, to start. Well, I’m going through a oddly peaceful moment in my life and I don’t know what to make of it. So, um I’m sort of enjoying hibernating in this little bit of winter that we get here.

00:00:56
Uh you know, we had a lot of rain recently and it’s it’s very rare for us to be locked inside because of weather. >> Um so that was kind of interesting. Um yeah, I you know, my main thing is I’ve I’ve been working on this sort of an essay describing an internal process I went through in reaction to something and um and it’s been an interesting journey. I I found out some interesting things about myself. So, I’ve enjoyed that. But very interior, you know, uh seen a few friends, but not

00:01:35
really socializing a whole lot. So, it’s where I’m at. Uh, Gertr Gertrod, I’m sorry. >> Gertrod, but the the French >> uh gout. Yeah, >> like a >> Yeah. >> Okay. Um it’s not so yeah it’s been quite a busy week with I had an exciting um coaching whatever process with somebody who so a CEO who wants to recuse himself in the next five years and his possible successor. So it it was our first meeting in this round and it was exciting and I could really like support that person um to

00:02:49
go into that possible future and see herself. So, it’s a woman and rather young woman. Um, but it’s so it was so rewarding for me to to see her lightening up. Light lighting up. Yeah. and um and coming out with all her fears and um her dreams and um and this the now CEO he so she works in the firm already and they work together very well and there is so like a fatherly way that he he is with her And I thought this is the best way to to do it. I mean you have built the the company and now you take out of these

00:03:53
the the gems out of your uh business and and you support them uh till they can go them walk the themselves. So, I was really like almost touched by how well-meaning he is and how supported she feels and anxious at the same time. It’s Yeah. And I love I love to to do this. I mean, it’s it was really really nice. Yeah. And I have to say it to get it out of my system. Um, tonight um, yesterday night there was a friend coming over staying overnight visiting his best friend in Maborg which is 30 kilometers from here

00:04:50
and this friend was the uh, head of uh, the geriatric clinic in Maborg. So pretty high level and in December there was something felt off but only in January they he went through all diagnosis it could be cancer it could be I don’t know and then he got diagnosed with um kit Jacobs which is the BSE E um type the you know the crazy cows when when it happened many years ago. So when it comes to humans, it’s called Jacobs. And within 3 weeks or so, he was really deteriorating and uh really like not

00:05:55
being able to talk again and and it Yeah. just to support that friend who loses um somebody who who works on a a charity for for an African school. And so so he he loses somebody he knows a long time, a friend um a partner in that and and um and he’s uh he took his um what do you call it the the flute. Yeah. So he took it with him to play for him because communication might not be possible anymore and he’s now on the paliotative station and it really shocked me because I mean before he was talking about what

00:06:51
they planned together and he wanted to journey together to Uganda and yeah so that really shocked me yesterday and um I am still in the aftermath and um I have heard about this disease but if you know a person that actually has it and deteriorates I mean he he was working in the clinic on January 6 and 14 days later he can hardly speak and and it got worse and worse and yeah. So this is my two cents and uh hi Christine we we said we we want to work to do the first round and maybe she appears so we have a topic

00:07:55
so I give to Gina. Hello. It’s good to be back. Um um before I left, I was on my way to Whistler, which is why I wasn’t able to be with you last time. And uh you know, sometimes if you’re really tenacious, stubborn, despite a a fall and a broken wrist, um you can learn to ski. So, I finally learned to ski and it for the first time actually felt good. Took two lessons, but my second instructor, it he was just amazing. And uh it was a nice little group, less than the three of us. And I said, “All I want is when I

00:08:33
get off the I want to actually enjoy it. Not just survive it, but enjoy it.” So I was very excited to say, “I can ski.” Oh. So that was my major accomplishment while we were away. Um uh I was noticing before as I was coming up to the house this morning how beautiful the scents in the garden are right now because we had a wee bit of a cold snap. But our cherry trees and our plum trees are blooming and so many things are coming to life. There’s just this really fresh but beautiful

00:09:04
organic pleasant smell in in the outdoor fresh air. It’s very little crisp. It’s not cold. Um so I was appreciating that and and sort of like you Dr. you know, um I had an uncle who had made this week and he was a medical doctor and uh he was fighting his cancer for some time and then as he got more and more fatigued just decided that maid was the right answer for him. And it was interesting uh how he approached that cuz he was a he was a do cancer research doctor and uh just how he chose to spend his last

00:09:37
day was interesting having his family share that with us and um and just accept that that you know life is a life and death are one one and so just respecting that process and uh my so I consider that a positive thing because it was a choice at a time when of his controlling And my real other excitement is that I can finally start uh contacting my research participants and uh it’s I’m very excited to get started and I’ve had my first posters delivered and first um uh older adult residents to support

00:10:15
that. So I’m looking forward to getting all sorts of uh phone calls. So and that’s it. Thank you very much. I don’t know who’s left because I was a a we bit late joining just jump in. Mona, Christine, Victoria, and me. I mean, I can start because my internet is always not so good. So, and then I have barking dogs around, so I will often be muted. Um, spring is here finally. It doesn’t rain for a while. Uh, at least my potatoes are in the soil. the the seeds are in and the Moses are fl nice. Today I took from the

00:11:06
station an American girl who will be houses sitting and animal sitting and she says she comes from 20 ines of snow right into the Italian summer not but spring and she’s very happy. She doesn’t even need to put fire in the in the in the furnace. She feels warm. I don’t but she does. So yeah, I’m hearing that we will do the topic which Christine proposed today. So I give over first um let’s do it Christine that you come last and then you can introduce the longevity thing. Uh first Mona and then

00:11:50
Victoria and then you. Okay. Okay. Yeah, we were buried in snow two days ago and now it’s all gone and it’s spring. So, yesterday I sort of hibernated and switched right away to spring tiredness. So, I slept all day almost. It was just the only thing to do. Um, I have been going into this book. It’s by uh Daniel Pinchback and it’s called Breaking Open the Head. And I’m really I I obviously have a hard time now to get out of this book and to listen to you and to join. Um, it’s about magic

00:12:46
mushrooms and Iana and yeah, but I had it since 19 no 20 and I haven’t really read it. So, I’m now so fascinated and I wonder what this will take me to. and I pass on to uh Victoria who is gone. >> Thank you. So I I’m back. Um >> um uh I I I’m kind of speechless right now. I I’ve been I’ve been trying to get Beatric to come. She she just finished her last um weekend of of Sleeping Beauty. three-hour ballet um very very intense complicated production with um like a hundred dancers and Beatatric had

00:13:44
to be in charge of the well she and she’s the assistant stage manager but so anyway so she didn’t pro she said I can’t promise because it just finished yesterday and she’s probably still sleeping um because it’s still relatively early here um no just I I don’t know what the the I well Christine I should just pass over to you But um what I was hearing in the check-in about uh about illness and death and things like that um is uh I just this just before this meeting this morning uh finished a a uh class I guess

00:14:20
you could call it on Zoom on um aging and illness, sickness, illness, old age and death. Um, and I was in a breakout room with a woman who just it I’ve been crying all morning because um, this woman is going through so many incredible things in her life um, herself. I don’t know her. I mean, she was we were just thrown into a breakout group, but um, with herself and her family and and um, I mean, just just an onslaught. It sounded like the book of Job. And it I was crying because it was just brought me to tears her

00:14:59
suffering. And then so beautifully at the end she said um I mean this was just like a 15-minute conversation. The end she said um but I’m here and I’m in this group and you know and she just listed a couple of very simple things and to try to bring herself you know to use the training to bring herself to gratitude and and it was just so beautiful. It made me cry even more of course. So, I’m a little bit emotional right now because it just it was a very profound experience because it was so real and

00:15:28
and I don’t know this woman at all. I mean, I just, you know, you those of you who do Zoom things, you know, you know, you get thrown into a breakout group with with total strangers, but the vulnerability and the the courage, it was just I don’t know. Anyway, it was just very moving. So, that’s my uh checkin for the moment. Um, over to you, Christine. Okay, Christine, Carl, California. Um, I had a came back from a really nice weekend. Uh, once a year I go up and visit my friend from graduate school.

00:16:04
So, it’s been 45 years that we’ve known each other and uh I go up once a year to visit her. Northern California, she comes down once a year and Northern California is just it’s a different place. Well, it California is so big. You can imagine it’s different all over the place. But we walk in the redwoods. We do these really um demanding hikes because she’s very good at hiking. But the the scenery and just being in the trees because there’s not a lot of trees in San Diego.

00:16:37
We have palm trees and eucalyptus trees, which are not the same as these beautiful, majestic uh redwoods. So, it was a delightful weekend. Had a good time. I’m always good to reconnect and yeah, maybe that’ll be um a good jumping off because you know the top did has everybody checked in? Anybody else left? Okay, so the topic it’s not really longevity. It’s about having some of your best years at the end of your life and not feeling like, you know, looking back and and everything in the past was the best and

00:17:17
now it is not. So, the idea is that they’ve studied older folks and found that happiness is definitely something that most people experience. So, I’m just going to summarize a couple of things that I took away. Um, it’s not about living a long time. uh it’s about living well. And the things that they found were um rather than trying to expand or constantly grow who you are or what you know or who you know um that older people like to hone their best friends. They’d like to hone the best

00:17:55
that they have in their life and work on cultivating what is. Um, it’s not to say that they have can’t be open to other things, but it’s it’s not because time is limited. It’s not about additive, but really taking care and honoring and honing what you have. Um, one of the other findings was that older people remember positive images more than negative images, while younger people remember both and probably have a bias to be a little bit more protective of themselves and a bias toward um, yeah,

00:18:34
protection and and maybe regret or fear. Older people don’t have that as much. Um, they can look at things and and recall more positive images. They didn’t say why, but that just seems to be the case. And then presence. I think this is maybe the most important one. Older people can really be present. Um, and it’s not because they’ve got cognitive decline. It’s not because they’re using denial or masking depression. It’s nothing negative happening that’s going on, but they live

00:19:06
more fully in the moment and more fully present about what what is now as opposed to constantly young people are are often thinking about the future in a vague way. You know, it’s kind of this infinite amount of time they have um and they’re planning for that future. Whereas people who are older really are living more in the moment. there’s not as many plans being not as many plans being made. Of course, there’s plans but not as much not that long trajectory. And then the last thing I took from it

00:19:39
was forgiveness that some of the happiness had to do with pe you know people were able to let things go as they got older thing. They didn’t hold on to regrets as much. They didn’t hold on to anger or things that went badly in their life. they they reconciled it and therefore they felt more peaceful and more contentment. Whereas younger people or middle-aged people might still be fighting some of these things and trying to get retribution or write the wrongs. Older people are just more willing to uh be with what is. But

00:20:16
um so it’s not about longevity, it’s about, you know, well-being. Um and the whole concept of time is very much interwoven about you know how do you look at the future how much time ahead what does what does having a shorter time perspective mean um that you’re not planning for decades ahead you’re planning for a much shorter period of time and I think what um Gertroud said is you know knowing somebody who has a rather sudden and dramatic illness like that um it it strikes fear I think

00:20:53
in all of us. That’s something we do contend with. Well, when you’re younger, it’s hypothetical that somebody in their older age um dies uh suddenly or dramatically. But I think for those of us who are in our last decades of life, you know, it it’s feels more personal. you know, it feels more possible that uh there but for the grace of God go I type of thing. Um so I think there’s that change again and that has to do with time and and um what we know we ultimately uh will face.

00:21:33
So that’s kind of a summary of the of the podcast. I’m hoping everybody had a chance to at least look at the transcript or listen to it and try to make sense for themselves. Where are they honing what they have and and honing friendships? Um where are they be trying to be very present and forgiving um and noticing things that are more positive as opposed to noticing things that are negative and troublesome. I I I notice a lot of negative things, but that’s partly because of the world uh

00:22:10
we’ve been forced to live lately. So, um I know Victoria and Lorraine probably agree that it’s impossible to think positively all the time because there’s so much coming at us that is not positive. But nonetheless, in in maybe the greater scheme of things, um you know, this too shall pass. this will this will not be around forever. Um so to try to think more positively and does anybody else want to pipe in? >> Um Christine, you mentioned a podcast. Did you send it by email to us?

00:22:54
>> Oh, okay. >> I thought it was a it was after the last women’s matters. Um, I think I sent it out the next day in an email. >> Uh, I sent it as an attachment. >> Okay. I’ll have to check it. I I didn’t see the email, so I was I suddenly thought, “Oh, what did I miss?” Okay. Did they did every did everybody else get the attachment or are we talking about something that nobody >> I did not >> got the email but I detracted an article about the longevity

00:23:28
uh attachment syndrome or something about the paper. So that’s strange. So that maybe it was I don’t know and I I read it again because I wanted to prepare to be prepared. So, the two weeks uh interval, it’s too long. I forget things. >> Well, I’ll send I’ll send it out again, but it seems like some people got the it was a hidden brain podcast and the title was the best years of our lives. >> And why is it that older people are happier? They’ve done scientific studies

00:24:04
after scientific studies because when they first found this in the 70s and 80s, nobody believed it. like it it was contrary to what everybody thought about getting older that at the end of your life everybody’s miserable, right? And so, uh, they’ve studied it and the person who who did the podcast is at the Stamford Longevity Center, but her her her research is not about longevity. It’s really about psychological well-being. And so they studied this and in the 70s and 80s found that older people, what do

00:24:41
you know? They’re pretty h they’re a pretty happy bunch. And so they began to study why and what’s going on. And that’s when they found out the things about presence, forgiveness, honing the best of your life and and holding on to more positive things. And then they did studies to reconcile that it was not due to masking depression, that these people weren’t just depressed and faking it or trying to cover up a depression consciously or unconsciously. And it wasn’t due to lack of memory. You know,

00:25:15
the the assumption was, well, they can’t remember what went wrong yesterday, so they’re happier because they can’t remember the bad things. Um, but they that was not the case either. It had nothing to do with cognitive status. So, and I don’t know >> what our situation, everybody of us, do you agree with that? I certainly do. I feel much more happy and much more free than I was, let’s say, 30 years ago or something like that. >> Definitely. Yeah. Uh Christine, I just

00:25:51
checked. I couldn’t find it either, >> but uh I completely agree. and and maybe you could send it again because it’s really interesting and I could pass it on to a couple of people because my husband is just just right now on the phone with somebody who whose husband is dying and he doesn’t want to die and it’s terrible. So, I’m just glad that I’m here with you. >> Uh because some things you can’t be too positive, but you can be Yeah. just a little more relaxed about

00:26:27
it. >> Yeah. The the article talks about overall well-being in later years. It doesn’t really address the you know the losses as much. I mean everybody’s facing a lot of loss and sometimes that loss is quite traumatic. Um it doesn’t talk a lot about that how to cope. >> Well, you know, it’s interesting. I I completely I can really see this what you’re talking about. I think that’s part of what I’ve been trying to adjust to in the last few months having really

00:27:01
retired cuz I was just playing with it before. And what I noticed is um that my body feels differently. It’s like until I got to true retirement, my body was always in a mild state of fight or flight. You know, I have this obsession about the neurobiology, the neurobiological underpinnings of emotions and ideas. And you know, along the lines of the whole poly vagal theory that I was so into last year, you know, when you’re in any form of fight or flight, meaning simply like being alert,

00:27:40
you’re still a professional. You have to cover your ass. You have to follow the rules. You have to follow the insurance companies. You have to make sure you’re covering all the bases here. So there’s a certain alertness that you have to maintain. So any form of fight or flight, your focus narrows to the threat or the potential threat. And now that I found that I’m completely devoid of that, not only do I feel more relaxed, but I can throw out certain things. I don’t care about certain details. Actors names

00:28:17
are out the window because I never held on to them. And it’s really freeing. Um, and I realize how much of my life, most of my life, I’ve spent in a state of alertness, narrowing my field of focus just to stay on top of everything that’s going on. And life has become more and more complex. I mean, that’s part of it. But um yeah, I I I really see that I can be so much more in the moment and it’s not necessarily psychological as much as these are my life conditions now. I don’t have to be ready to pounce, ready

00:28:56
to respond quickly. So it’s it’s lovely. That part of it is really really nice. And you know, of course, then you go through, well, what was I valuing before? And now I’m valuing very different things. I may not see people as much as I did before, but it feels like quality time. I really get into the moment and and enjoy it. So, yeah. And I didn’t get that email either, by the way. Yeah. >> Sorry, guys. Sorry. >> You covered it. >> Yeah. For me, it has to do with I think

00:29:36
it I think I mean, as you all know, I’ve been studying Buddhism like around the clock since the beginning of the pandemic. Um, so theoretically, um, well, I shouldn’t say theoretically. I I think I’m still like here on the planet thanks to the this immersion. As little as I’ve gained from it, I still feel like it’s been a survival mechanism. Um >> but for me um the it’s absolutely devastating not to to be able to work. It’s just it’s killing me. And and every day

00:30:13
I’m in pain because I I want to do what I feel like I do best and what I was meant to do and what I did successfully for decades and it just I can’t get I I’m not able to like put my head around it. Um, and I’m spending hours and hours and hours and hours reaching out to all every imaginable person and organization. I mean, not the not unrealistically like I’m not writing to, you know, Carnegie Hall saying, “Could you offer it to me for free and I’ll invite my friends?”

00:30:50
Um, but the the things that are are would be feasible theoretically, but I’m seeing very very clearly that um it’s, you know, I’m aged out. It’s as simple as that. And um and I, you know, it just happened through one circumstance of of a woman that believed in me um who had a lot of power um that she she was behind me for for decades and I didn’t even realize the how powerful she was. I mean that that was sustained and then she got aged out and now she has dementia. So even if she had the capacity to support

00:31:30
what I’m doing to un it wasn’t underwriting, it was just um organization. Um so so the age aging thing is very palpable in that sense too. It’s like the whole infrastructure aged out and now there are these you know the the um proverbial young Turks um who have taken over that whole sector of of the cultural sphere. And um and I wasn’t the only victim um or or whatever you want to call it to collateral damage or whatever. Um the last time I was at a at a social event with with people that

00:32:07
organized with that organization, um there was a whole group of us that that all said, “Did you did you get invited back next year?” And and we all realized we we were all axed and it was all to do with um age. We’re just as skillful. If anything, we’re wiser and better. Um, I feel like I have more to contribute than I ever had before in my whole life. I I feel like I have a huge amount to contribute now. Um, I could be teaching around the clock the things I’ve learned and um and performing and giving master

00:32:39
classes and lecturing. So, so anyway, I don’t sorry this is a big like self-pity fest. Um but but just to to the point I mean even from an academic point of view I think yes the um Stanford’s renowned for um some of the there are some people involved in that whole institute that are that are devout Buddhists. So I’ve actually heard a lot of stuff. Um yes there’s there if you if you have the right attitude and the right spiritual sort of or or you know no matter what your spirituality is sort of the right

00:33:13
focus and the right um way of looking at things I think it’s absolutely true that um and as I said in the in the check-in I just finished this class on aging um and it it is profound if you have the gratitude and the att the attitude of gratitude um And there’s this other side that no matter if you have the greatest attitude in the world, the facts still remain. I mean, the facts are still there that that um and that and that’s the beauty of of the people that you know are are aged and still can contribute.

00:33:52
Sorry that was so long. Victoria, you really brought up something that touched me because um I was married for 24 years and his career dictated where we lived and how we lived and I had um restarted a practice because of all of our move and stuff. restarted a private practice in psychology three times >> and then at the age of 60 I don’t know 66 something like that we finally moved back to San Diego and I said I’m not finished so I went back into practice and that became the richest part of my practice

00:34:37
and I retired at 76 so I I hear what you’re saying you don’t feel finished with that among other things, you know, uh more complex, but yeah, and I I feel for you. I I would love to come to a venue where I could hear you play or conduct or whatever, you know, I would love to do that. Um so, you’re not finished as as I’m seeing it. And maybe there’s some way um to um to be your creative self cuz I could see you’re very creative and obviously very bright and all of that and you want to ch channel it.

00:35:24
So I’m rooting for you. Tell me where and when and we’ll show up. No, I’m I’m joking now, but I know these things are very complex and as you say, there’s this hierarchy and the agism and I’m sure it’s really a tremendous challenge, but I I do hear what you’re saying. I have several thoughts. One is um Yeah, and I resonate with what Lauren said. Yeah. Um when I was 30, my marriage broke down my first and I was really miserable when I see the two photos from 40 to and 30. So

00:36:12
I look younger at 40. Um and I started yeah with the around that time I started with uh therapy for myself and so there is a lot that developed over time and that I was more and more like in my center and more and more like taking the life as I wanted to be. not so much who who tells me what what to do and and I think that I can very much resonate with what you said Christine um about the findings and and and it’s also very rewarding to have grandkids like you can just love them without um the hassle of the everyday everyday life

00:37:13
and and that’s and and they contributed to my husband getting better. So they called with a video call, I want to talk to Opa and um so so that was very heartwarming to so I I I think it it also has to do with the connections you have. When you say honing in it, it’s like what do you value and and connection is the most important part and not many people party but more like the the meaningful deep connections or playwise. So I’m I’m just getting my my youngest brother who is 62 now. He got a divorce

00:38:08
I think two two um years ago and he’s starting that process. Oh, you’re frozen. There she is. >> Gatro, you have been frozen. We can’t hear you. I can’t hear you. >> No, it’s better. >> Yeah. You the last thing you said was he’s starting that process. But what what is the process? Can you remind >> Yeah. I mean to to look at his life and and to before everything mostly went Yeah. his career. And so he was uh and they were laughing at me my siblings

00:39:03
when I started with 30 to yeah to do therapy and things like that and spirituality and so so I think it’s also um at what time do you start to develop yourself or to get more deep inside I still love him. It’s not not the point. But but there are some conversations you can’t have with him or you couldn’t. Yeah. So um and there was one more. I don’t know. >> Somebody else take that. >> Oh, I’m sorry. I was just going to invite Heidi. Um, I I think having this new romance and also with a younger man,

00:39:56
I I I’m curious to hear what you have to say about um how that like how your velong was before the relationship and how it is now. >> Oh, the chong is the same. >> Yeah, I do mean that’s ridiculous. Yeah, you know what I’m saying. >> Wanting to to grow and learn and that’s always the same. And it’s now I have a a partner to do that together. And this is so important because doing everything alone and especially I want to heal relationships and when I’m alone how do

00:40:32
I do that and he agreed uh we met by agreeing that we would do that together and that’s for me a better thing couldn’t happen at all. So we are still figuring out and we are in co-regulation process but so far it’s amazing you know and I have learned so much again about my deeper trickers triggers which I thought have already I had already worked on and they are coming out like crazy but now I again I have the impression that I I’m I’m going from one plateau to the next one. It is it’s really hard work every

00:41:12
time but it’s so rewarding and then having a partner with whom I can share that and who is holding this you know and who is ready to hear what I have to say with him you know and who is ready to look at his >> he has not as much time as I have so far because he is still full-time working but he said uh yes just yesterday we are not in a race and as soon as he has a little bit more of of calmness he would be able to get deeper into the things while I’m working with chat and with everything. So um

00:41:50
I got so many insights since we are together because there is a partner with whom to to talk uh about these things and for me it’s um it’s even more deep than it was with Mark before because Mark was not able to go too much into his own depth. He was afraid and there were some moments which I saw also other people try to work with him that he just couldn’t you know and while Marcus is quite quite quite courageous I have to say and he has done a lot of work on himself so I’m so happy that this uh relationship

00:42:34
is happening and that we will it is a task it’s not you say romance in it’s not a romance in the thing in the sense which I have lived in my life like I’m in love and everything is good now it’s really work and and and yeah but good it feels really good and every challenge which is coming then and I had a lot of challenges since I got to know him uh but it’s it’s it’s sort of coming together now and he is uh has uh confirmed that he would come and may to stay here and how that can be. We will

00:43:15
see how it works, you know, because he must know that at the end he needs to marry me to be able to stay here. So, and we have agreed now I go there next week that we will talk about all these practicalities and see how we resolve them. And I feel that I’m finally growing up into adulthood. >> That’s good. and letting go of many of the expectations, the romantic expectations, you know, how life should be. Oh, so I’m deeply grateful. >> Is it enough for you, Victoria? >> Yes. I think I said relationship instead

00:44:00
of romance, but I might have said romance just um just because I’m a romantic. Um yeah. Well, I think >> by the way, by the way, I’m Me, too. And I always said to him, you don’t allow me to be romantic. >> I think expectations >> I think expectations could be a follow-up topic. Uh definitely because I think that that I think expectations are behind all of these things how we come to terms with because it’s inevitable. The aging is inevitable. All of its death, illness.

00:44:38
Okay, I won’t go all Buddhist, but um but I think expectations when you said that word, I thought that’s it. Yeah, that’s where we need to look. >> Hi dear, as you were talking about Mark, it reminded me he studied aging and that was the topic he presented on at the integral conference when we first met you. Do you have any recollection of what some of his nuggets were about aging and and well-being? conscious aging. >> Yeah, he was uh a little bit like you said and like Loren said, seeing the

00:45:14
positive parts and letting go of the uh of what was in the past, which is possible as long as you are not triggered a lot, you know. And he found uh in the integral community, he found recognition which he never had before in his life. and he found a good relationship with me and he was the last years of his life he was happy and so he wanted to convey that that even if for a long time life didn’t go so super well that there is a possibility that uh that you you can um have some good years in

00:45:57
in order years. So I think that was the main thing and then he put it into integral perspective and everything you know into the um um to see what aging is along the spiral and these things and he was so excited about integral and he had big conversations with people on Facebook and everywhere. Uh so he found his his interest in this last seven years of his life and that’s good but uh certain painful uh life experience he couldn’t touch that was too much. So I saw that when somebody tried to to

00:46:41
give him a psychotherapy about his tinitus, I at the end I had to defend him and I had said stop it because I saw him tormented. So um yeah he couldn’t go into these deep psychological things you know and why Marcus is yeah he’s at least not against it and I think he is elaborating without telling a lot but is elaborating a lot inside and then there come certain things and I say oh okay you know and I’m surprised so I think I found the right partner to do this work and my commit ment is trying it was with with

00:47:25
Mark too you know to to create relationship better relationships and with a big perspective uh healing the world because I thought I always think also still with Mark if the personal relationships and and the couple relationships don’t work uh how can you expect that peace is in the world when in your very small circle you are you are fighting. So trying to find out how how that can happen that you create peace instead of instead of uh fight and resentment and all these things. How to get over it and u find

00:48:08
ways that’s that’s my task in my my life’s task my life’s work let’s say. So, so what does integral theory say about aging? Nothing, right? Is there anything? Again, practical life advice? I don’t think so. Um, I’m thinking of the quadrants. I’m thinking of uh first tier, second tier. I can’t really think of any can’t really pull anything out that would be applicable. Does anybody have anything? >> I think only that the more you are evolved in integral sense, the more easy

00:49:02
it is to let go and to be in the present and to be accepting of what is. When when you are get stuck in red or in blue then even in blue you can be happy uh but uh in a different way less conscious. No and the more you are conscious I think in older age and the more you have developed a spiritual approach to to to older age I think and integrate people are supposed to have that. So I think that u it’s easier to approach older age not being so performative as in the orange level you always have to to to

00:49:52
run and run and run and run and still be that’s what Loren says no this complete >> and you cannot come into into peace when you are in this treadmill even if it’s not an outer treadmill but it’s also an inner treadmill you have to you know >> I I think there is an outer treadmill you know like in the United States particularly this culture is the best of this culture is kind of orange so you know that’s the way our institutions are set up that’s the way business is set up

00:50:29
so if you don’t develop your orange chops >> isn’t it >> it’s not going to be a very Good place to be. >> I love the idea of orange chops. >> Yeah, I got heads up. Seven. I have seven minutes to go till dinner. I have my own chef. That’s nice. Yeah. Yeah. >> So maybe we do a a quick check out with uh what is your take on it now or before or did it develop or not? Whatever. Whoever wants to say something maybe you start first so you have enough time.

00:51:21
I just by listening to you and uh my mom came up. She was 88 when she died and uh she had dementia so not very conscious but the very last day I could talk to her before she had her stroke. Um she had a stenosis in the aorta and which means not 4 cm di um diameter but 0.4. So he she could just fall down and and die any minute. And um they didn’t operate her because they said then she is uh in a vegetative state and the the brain will not make it. So we said, “Okay, she’s old enough.”

00:52:20
But then she had so hard I had a hard time breathing and I was there and and um visiting her and then she got this like was breathing so that you could feel it. It’s really also fear of death in that moment when you can’t get enough air in. And when it’s over, I I was just hugging her and said, “Oh, mom, I wish I could help you.” And then she looked at me, smiled, and said, “It is like it is.” And that those were almost the last words I heard. So she had after the

00:53:05
stroke, she couldn’t talk. And we were there for four more days. But this like and then I had a shaman friend and said, “Oh, I’m checking in when she died.” And she said, “She’s like a little girl just skipping into the light and no detours, nothing, just joyfully like uh and and I could feel so I I lost my fear of death. in in those days. So it was like um she could be just with with what what’s so not each and every moment but but like really like okay I have to breathe deeper but but this uh

00:54:04
it’s it is like it is and um for me That is something I really wish for myself that that I can be more and more no matter how the aging process of my body is developing. um to have that peaceful way and and when the doctor came in the morning to like uh to write this paper, he said I I mean most people get more peaceful in the in the face after death or during death, but he said I I’ve seldom saw uh seen some Yeah. this like she was almost smiling. She’s so yeah, peaceful and um yeah, I was sitting there all night like

00:55:04
a death watch and it yeah made me peaceful, made me like this is just the next dimension and uh it’s okay to to have to go there to have to go through this. >> It makes me wonder if there’s something we all could be doing now. And I think there are things we could be doing spiritually >> to help us get to that point where we will be at peace that, you know, we’ll have a smile on our face when we’re breathing our last breaths. So, it’s something I think about is what do I do

00:55:51
now to make sure that that I’m smiling and not frowning at that point. >> Yeah, I think we could continue this topic next time and see what we could do now. What is our path towards this direction? What do you think? >> Quick check out all the others. Can you spell out the topic again because I now wrote down expectations but what would you suggest? How can we smile when we die? >> How can we prepare now? What what is the possibility of preparation so that when we die let go?

00:56:38
>> Yeah. To go peacefully. I mean the Tibetan book for life and death is one of those possibilities. >> One of my teachers um wrote a book on um death and dying. In fact, the course I just finished um was based on her book, but it was taught by another teacher. Um I’ll send I’ll send it in an email. um the reference her name is Olivia Hopeella and um a really it’s really beautiful. I read the book some time ago but I’m planning to read it again. I I’ll send the information. I have to go

00:57:22
now. I just realized because I’m late for another meeting but um thank you everybody and to be continued. And I really love your um hair band Christine. You look fabulous today. I mean, you always look fabulous, but I especially like, of course, you know me with the schmata syndrome. Okay, goodbye everybody. Lots of love. See you next. See you all later. Bye. What? I thought the others didn’t want to say something. Okay. Okay. Well, I I just can add that um I’m more and more going into being instead of doing

00:58:18
and that’s uh yeah that’s very relaxing and very satisfying and I will continue that. Okay. See you. >> Okay, take care. See you in two weeks. Bye.