When oceans meet

Summary

The video transcript captures a lively and engaging online meeting among a diverse group of women from different parts of the world, including South Africa, Austria, and the United States. They share personal experiences, reflections, and insights about their lives, nature, and relationships. The conversation delves into various topics, such as the unique meeting of oceans in South Africa, personal anecdotes related to Mozart’s birthday, and reflections on interpersonal relationships and challenges in communication. Participants discuss the complexity of giving and receiving criticism, the importance of direct communication, and the emotional layers of shame and fear that often accompany interpersonal conflicts. Additionally, they share updates on their personal lives, including engagement news, exploring new relationships, and the beauty of spring as it begins to bloom in different locations. Throughout the dialogue, there is an emphasis on the importance of connection, understanding, and the dynamics of human relationships.

Highlights–

The meeting of the Indian and Atlantic Oceans: Participants discussed the fascinating ecological interactions at the southern tip of Africa where the two oceans converge, highlighting the stark temperature differences and their effects on marine life.-

Celebrating Mozart’s birthday: One participant shared a whimsical childhood tradition of celebrating Mozart’s birthday with donuts and a life-sized doll, adding a personal touch to the conversation.-

The challenges of giving and receiving criticism: A recurring theme was the difficulty in delivering constructive feedback, with participants sharing their experiences of being ghosted or shut out after providing their insights.-

The arrival of spring: The women discussed the changes in nature as spring approaches, with one participant noting the behavior of birds and the warmth in Vienna, contrasting with winter’s grip in other regions.-

Personal connections and engagements: One participant announced her engagement, sparking joy and excitement among the group, along with discussions about wedding planning and the importance of shared experiences.-

The dynamics of communication: Participants reflected on the complexities of communication, particularly in terms of fear and shame, and how these emotions can hinder direct interactions.- The power of vulnerability: The conversation touched on the significance of vulnerability in relationships, with participants sharing personal stories of how their backgrounds affect their responses to criticism and feedback.

Key Insights–

**Ecological Interactions and Human Connection**: The discussion about the convergence of the Indian and Atlantic Oceans serves as a metaphor for human interactions. Just as the merging waters create a unique ecosystem, the blending of diverse perspectives and experiences can enrich relationships but also poses challenges. Understanding these dynamics can foster deeper connections among individuals. –

**The Importance of Tradition and Memory**: The personal anecdote about celebrating Mozart’s birthday emphasizes how traditions can shape our identities and create lasting memories. Engaging in such rituals fosters a sense of community and belonging, which is essential for emotional well-being.-

**Navigating Criticism**: The difficulties in giving and receiving feedback highlight the need for emotional intelligence in communication. Understanding one’s own triggers and the potential vulnerabilities of others can lead to more constructive dialogues and healthier relationships.-

**Seasonal Changes as a Metaphor for Growth**: The arrival of spring symbolizes renewal and growth, paralleling the personal development that participants are experiencing in their lives. Embracing change, whether in nature or personal circumstances, can lead to new possibilities and insights.- **Relationships and Vulnerability**: The discussions about engagements and relationships underscore the value of vulnerability in forming deep connections. Sharing one’s true self can lead to stronger bonds and mutual understanding, even amidst fears and uncertainties.-

**Cultural Differences in Communication**: The varied backgrounds of the participants reveal how culture influences communication styles. Recognizing these differences can enhance empathy and facilitate more effective interactions, particularly in a globalized world.-

**Emotional Layers in Interpersonal Conflicts**: The conversation illustrates how emotions like fear and shame often underlie conflicts. Acknowledging these feelings can pave the way for more open and honest communication, allowing individuals to express their needs and boundaries without resorting to avoidance or defensiveness.In summary, this gathering of women transcends geographical boundaries, illustrating the shared experiences of life, relationships, and the complexities of human interaction. Through personal stories and collective reflections, they explore themes of connection, emotionality, and the importance of navigating life’s challenges together. The interplay of nature and human experiences serves as a poignant reminder of the beauty and complexity of the world around us and within us.

ah women met us in January 27 in the year 25 and we are in four and everybody from another country and even three continents isn’t that great so Hy from South Africa hello everyone I’m H I’m here in Cape Town and this morning I was busy writing a Blog talk about where two oceans meet and it’s very close to where I am here where the on the southern point of Africa where the Indian and the the Atlantic oceans meet and if you go and do a little bit of research about it is very interesting how that joining of twohuge currents affects the sea life underneath the surface that we can’t see with the eye we have to dive deep to see it but the effects on on nature um on a sea level in the ocean it was just beautiful to realize that it’s also gradual it’s not just sudden so it’s a gradual change of temperature of the water up to 7 degre celius so when you swim this that side the water is warm and if you come this side it’s ice cold so to the West it’s very cold and then to the east it’s becoming warmer and warmerand U we went for a swim on Saturday on that coast and it was just lovely the water was like sitting in the jacuzzi it was really lovely so yeah here I am so I’m passing to you Mona thank you well I’m still sitting here in Vienna and it’s uh rather warm during the day 22° cel and the birds and the squills behave like it’s spring already and yeah I’ve just noticed that again and again it’s not that easy to work on Zoom because I have a rather old equipment and some things just get up like my mouse now and now I took my husband’sMouse I wonder what maybe he can solve the problem so um what else well I have been reading a magazine by steininger and K it’s called evolve it’s a German Magazine on Spiritual Development and they are now very much into interbeing uh a transformation of your subjective being to what is here together right now for example and I yeah it’s something I’m thinking about now and I wonder if we can manage as well on zoom and yeah I found it interesting reading so maybe maybe there’s something online and you have can have a look onthe Evolve magazine okay also to Victoria thank you monia so happy Mozart’s birthday everybody when I was a little girl I um stayed home from school every year on Mozart’s birthday and I made donuts um copin and I have a my life-sized Mozart doll um and he would sit in the chair in the living room and he would read deite because I was learning German and uh a family friend gave me a subscription to De sites to help me with my German which was a horrible idea because it’s a very dry paper but my mozer they like to read itand um I would serve him freshly made donuts and tea and one day um my mother was going through the house was most’s birthday and he was drinking his tea and reading his paper and eating his crap and and my mother I heard her yell because she he scared her because he looks he’s lifesize and she forgot he was sitting there and she screamed and Mozart very casually took his arm this is a true story and flicked with his wrist and this beautiful teacup of my mother shattered in a thousand pieces onthe so I warned her never to speak because she swore it Mozart when was scared by him um I think that’s enough for a check-in for today except that I’m going to listen to Mozart all day and um monia you’re right in the heart of it so I hope you have beautiful mozarti and dreams tonight over to you Heidi and I’m glad you have the the lights the festive lights for the party Heidi yeah okay yeah I like Moz but I wasn’t aware that today it’s the birthday we have it in Italy not as warm as in Vienna we had 16 Centigrades and Ifind it warm but uh okay it’s also rainy a little bit and wind from the desert from from from Africa coming all together I’m fine uh I’m still looking for people to stay here last week I met a man he came here and we really talked well and then he said uh he wrote me a letter and said oh no he is looking for a a house which is not in steel and and concrete and things like that and so okay I’m still uh looking for other people coming so I’m a little bit disappointed because we had a good relationship inone day we stayed together a whole day and I thought oh good yeah that that’s really good and then he says no this too hilly and to to something and I thought you could have told me when you were here because the house was there before you know and uh I got a letter and email and I thought well that’s not good to do it this way so I am a little bit disappointed and so I’m here in this way so what shall we uh talk about I’m intrigued by what you are saying honey that the sort of opposites come togetherand how they mix and melt and you talk about the Seas so the oceans which I wasn’t aware that it is like this but this happens so often in life no that things come together or they expel each other or in some way they come into each other that I could imagine as a as a topic how to find integration let’s say of different streams literally in this case do you have another idea different something no sounds good I like that the only oh sorry on go on I have to sneeze oh okay um no I just wanted to say hi itdoesn’t have to be our theme but what you just said about the the man and the letter and everything um it as it just happen synchronicity um I just had I’ve had an ongoing situation with a person I thought was a very close friend of mine who um uh anyway I won’t waste time with it but the he he completely shut me out of his life just because I gave him some constructive criticism and now there’s he has an art gallery and and it’s awkward because now there’s um a party being given there on Thursday not by him it’s his Gallery butby the Harvard Club and the president of Harvard Club because I’m an art person she’s been writing to me hundreds of times begging me to go and I’m trying I’ve been trying to reach out to my friend to see if he will accept you know restore our relationship because he cut me off he can’t be criticized and I gave him some I thought very helpful criticism anyway so it’s the same thing that just now just before this call today I thought okay I’m going to reach out to him because I don’t want to go tothis event if he’s going to you know treat me like a criminal it’s it’s awkward and um so I just called him out I said I’m not getting your notices since months now and I seem to be off your mailing list and he wrote back and said oh it must be your spam filter which is a lie because I check that every day so but I just thought when you told the story of the letter people are afraid to speak directly and so they do the more indirect they can um be the the safe they feel that he couldn’t this mancould not tell you to your face oh I I just you know I don’t feel comfortable or whatever the his reason is his real reason um but instead he waits and writes a letter and it’s all about the architecture you know it’s like so this kind of fear of of direct relations I think is also a theme but maybe it relates to the other of two opposites coming together maybe it’s the opposite of that yeah can be because there are obviously different expectations in in life no I mean I have another situation where I Isaid we are good friends and so I really need to tell you a certain thing you know and that was good I mean he was not um not shocked or something and we could go on but it’s really obviously difficult one way to to give the criticism in a way which is not let’s say humiliating or not scratching drop of the ego let’s say in this way and on the other side it’s difficult to realize um the the Good Will and the the intention of helping when uh Clarity is spoken that could be also a good good topic I think everybody of us has someof these experiences Victoria I just want to ask I’m curious was the was the criticism unsolicited or did he ask you for feedback um neither it was it was it was um it was the way he treated his guests at one of his art openings and because I am in the art world I I’ve been trying to support him since I met him two years ago in many different ways helping him with um reaching out you know to important collectors and people and um he he treated his guests very poorly and I that particular evening I had invitedthere were six people there that I invited it’s a very small Gallery so it was a consider considerble number of people I brought and they everyone was treated so poorly that then um afterward all my friend said we’ll never go back there again and so I I wrote to him it was unsolicited but it was also warranted I believe because he needed the feedback poorly in what respect are what are treated poorly in what respect oh it it’s all yeah I don’t want to waste time with the circumstances but B what it amounted tois he’s he’s is a very very um stingy person and so he he tries to lure people to his openings with um with food in this case it was ice cream because he thought that would be an ice cream Tru he thought it would be exciting but then um it it was just silly it was silliness he he uh he only said he would pay the man a certain amount and when it reached that amount the man could no longer serve anything but the truck stayed there so an embarrassment and all these people including me and my friendsarrived un unknowingly you know after the event and I mean it just that was just the tip of the iceberg what it amounted to was a kind of disc he was discourteous to the guests and accused the guests of of coming only because of the ice cream which of course is a nonsense because you wouldn’t drive for 35 minutes on the freeway at rush hour just to get ice cream from a truck nobody would do that so so it was it was a very unskillful to use a popular Buddhist word and so I in my feedback to him Ijust I just tried to point out to him that you know it’s perfectly fine and legitimate to have an you know an opening without any food or drink you know it’s of course it’s it’s you know it’s more fun and more gutle if you do but it’s not but he he I I said he needed to think cuz he’s very wealthy he makes he make he’s a doctor he makes hundreds of thousands of dollars it’s just he’s very kinly and and what’s the word for stingy in German G what g g yeah gik yeah so so I felt like it was an important thing for hisfuture because um the whole I I said you know people will forget about the art they’ll just remember that they were treated badly and either you know don’t do it at all no one will mind if you don’t you know it was your idea to have this fancy you know you had this big truck and they were playing brumms on the loudspeaker and it was all very so um yeah so but H I’m curious what what you were what um you obviously you have a word of wisdom about this in terms of I think I I learned my lesson as wellwith a friend from Austria actually um I went to Spain in 2016 and a friend from Austria I didn’t invite him to go to come and see me in Spain he decided to come and see me there that we can explore to work together and I I even had to change my plane ticket to accommodate him with date wise which I did and it costed me quite a lot of money at the time but that was okay and what happened in Spain already was a bit nerve-wracking because he was everybody he met I I already saw this online in someconversational um events online before I went to Spain that he would go for people’s I would say their vulnerabilities so to speak publicly and he would just go for them we did that during one of Fleming sessions as well Heidi you know Fleming um conscious conversations and I was curious about this of him just going for people’s vulnerabilities and um and publicly actually harassing them so I didn’t say anything so he came to Spain and he did the same with me with my one friend that I was staying he was justgoing for me and he didn’t know much about me at that time so I was quite offended first of all and um I made peace with it because I was I was there for six weeks and he left after a weekend and when we took him to the airport he he acted like nothing happened because I I actually said to him what are you doing in front of my friends this is uncalled for I didn’t ask you for any you don’t even know what I do at that moment in time you didn’t even know how I work or what I do or anything on that level he only knew methrough this conversational experiences online which we didn’t have personal Direct experience like we have here now and then when we took him to the airport in Barcelona he turned around to me said oh you know what in September that was in July I’m coming to South Africa let’s arrange some Workshop let’s arrange some workshops together and stuff I again I didn’t invite him and then we spent quite a lot of time online to decide what we will do together which was beautiful what we intended to do wasreally beautiful and a week before he came to he was supposed to come to South Africa he just ghosted me and I arranged all these workshops that we would do together I spoke to companies like Microsoft and they allowed us to come and do work they would pay us to come and do a workshop for them uh quite spiritual type Workshop which was quite a thing already at that time but then I realized afterwards because he just cut me off everywhere but then I realized in that process of us U exploring what wewill do together the one day I just asked him I said to but very gently I just asked him I’m very curious about your approach to what you do because you’re doing amazing work he was doing a lot of Biden Katie’s work and I said I really you know it’s really amazing work that you do but I’m curious about why do you always go to publicly humiliate people and to go through their vulnerabilities I’m trying to understand where does it come from now I knew his history with his mother um she was really quite a fierce person and hedidn’t have a good relationship with her so I I I just connected the dots that there was something going on with a feminine because he would always go for woman even in the sessions were flaming he would go for a woman and he would just go and attack them and I found it fun interesting so there I was I sort of take took a back step later because I was quite perturbed by this why cut me off but I realized I took him on on what he was doing and I I told him I my perspective of it was it was unsolicited in thefirst place people didn’t ask him to give his view on them and one of the ladies Tammy who you all know he was doing that with her in one of the sessions as well and she reached out to him afterwards to ask can they just talk about this and he refused you blocked her out and she even made a YouTube video to explain her side of it and I asked him about what happened with him and Tammy and then he said but she wanted him to see her through through her eyes and he was expressing how he’s seeing her so itand I was trying to understand but what does that matter what what what you think about something doesn’t really matter it’s what they believe about themselves and how they show up in the world and the Beautiful work they do in the world and their contribution is more important than attacking somebody publicly like that especially if it’s unol solicited advice or things like that I don’t know if that helps you Victoria but that that was part of why I was asking when somebody gives you advice that’sunsolicited we are in my experience we are just human we are triggered you know by by it might be well meant even like you did but we are something in us are triggered for whatever reason by especially in the way it’s done I think the way it’s done as well says a lot you know for example my mother was very critical un after Da but she was very critical and so I think in my childhood with him harassing me in front of my friends publicly like that was that critical part in him came out and it remind me of my mother some somehow sowhat I’m saying it’s also the way we do it it’s if it’s sent with love somebody can really share something with love with you but it’s it’s it’s not harsh you know it’s like well-meaning so there’s this way they are different but I still have the thing about unsolicited advice you know like oh uh Hy what is the name you said Fleming uh Fleming Fleming fch it was it’s it the series that he ran for many years was called conscious conversations but it was not him visiting you no no no it was not Fleming it was this other aperson who was attending Fleming sessions I’m trying to remember but I don’t remember who that might have been yeah but I don’t even say his name publicly now because I mean it’s I’m just saying was flaming sessions which which all flaming was actually always a very in my experience I found it really amazing because of the way he navigated these things he had just a way to you know to navigate these things but that specific time with Tammy was highly upsetting for everybody present because you could see he’s just going for herand she didn’t anything she didn’t do anything wrong you know she didn’t do anything bad or anything she was just her and he just went for her and I saw the pattern then that he’s doing this publicly with people and I was fascinated by it but even personally so when I then you see in the return asked him about it then he just cut me off because I was why you do I’m trying to understand why do you have that approach because maybe there science behind that approach but I want to know about I’m curious about and and I did very gentlyand he then just shut me off everywhere which was good I don’t mind that I mean is prerogative but it it and there was a conversation about I’m curious about this thing you do it was not even I was no way trying to give him any advice I was curious about his behavior and his Pro he’s actually his approach rather well I think to to connect it back to what the story Heidi told about the the man that might live there um I I think behind so many so many actions is fear it feels like like there’s and andso with the triggering too um I know exact what you mean Hunley because it um my my mother was well I found out through my therapist who was diagnosed my mother in absentia um that my mother had a personality disorder and so the um what she wasn’t just critical it was it was like an illness um and I think our our own backgrounds make us more V more or less vulnerable to criticism what what what the other person may perceive as constru RVE criticism we might perceive as destructive because of our own historyyou know it activates something some memory or some conditioning um I mean in the case of the my I I still think of him as a friend whether he does me or not um I think I think no one ever criticized him before I think that’s my guess he he’s the Beloved baby of his parents I’ve met his parents and he’s totally entitled and everyone loves him more than life itself and he’s he’s like a giant baby he’s very adorable and very um and um he he even in his relationship he he chose a beautiful young man um itreminded me of well I shouldn’t say reminded me of of Death in Venice because he’s not that old I mean my friend but um but he chose the most beautiful young boy kind of as if he were chocolate instead of a human being and of course this young boy who’s very very poor he’s hispanic and and as I said my friend Andre because he’s a doctor has immense amounts of money to play with so he takes him on these fabulous vacations and shows him the world so in every respect he’s kind of almost worshiped and he’s a pediatricianso he he always talks about how his children patients adore him more than life itself and they prefer him to their own parents and they wish they could stay in the clinic for the rest of their lives I mean this is him him reporting it um so I think in that sense it’s it’s it’s interesting because it’s almost like um the shock of being the worshiped and adored and all of a sudden somebody says watch out you know you’re not being courteous to your guests and it’s um but again it’s the it’s it’s so it’s so much the I mean Iguess I was what I was thinking just now with all of that was that if I had if I had considered what he’s like and his own background perhaps I would have been wiser in realizing any kind of oh there she is wow hello hey hello hi happy Mozart’s birthday happy Mozart’s birthday nice to see you after such a long time I know it’s been such a long time and I I the timing is really bad now with my job and um but I thought maybe I’ll just say hello while I’m driving to work it’s wonderful what what what type of workare you doing now I work as the assistant stage manager for Oregan ballet theater so it’s the um the ballet company in town they’re they’re really EX excellent um and I uh during rehearsal weeks I do a lot of prep work and make paperwork for the crew and uh learn learn all of the choreography so I know what’s supposed to happen when and um organize the props and that kind of stuff and then in the theater I’m backstage making sure that everybody uh is safe you know when there’s big traffic moments backstage and everybodyhas the props they need and um I’m just kind of like yeah and sometimes I get to call some cues as well um if the stage manager has too many cues during that moment sorry there sun and what about you dancing uh not very much I still do a little bit of partner dancing occasionally um that hasn’t yeah I haven’t been dancing as much recently keep keep trained keep in practice I know I I do I do take a ballet class once a week so there’s that um yeah but you’re right I should do more yeah um dance with them when there is a an aninofficial moment oh I’m far too intimidated for that are you although I have I did take company class once on stage um because it was uh before my call time so I got to take class before I started work which was fun um good good how is everybody else we are still alive as you can see that’s a good good new news yeah that’s great good good I was thinking I I had met a young woman in in another group and I had invited her to come to women meds and she said she would come maybe today and so when when it made Bing Ithought might be here but good we know you and I’m happy to have news from you yes yes no things are very good I’m still living in Portland um I uh got engaged um sorry the Sun keeps getting in the camera um which is exciting and uh you got a ring you got a ring show us the ring yes here I’ll pull over for second to show you the ring is so big she can’t drive with it yeah it’s a flower beautiful yeah it’s not the most it’s not the most practical but um I chose it we were at a craft fair in San Francisco it’s Handmade bythis uh woman who does a a silver jewelry Bas like kind of inspired by nature and uh we were at the craft fair and we were looking at things and I looked at it and I and I just kind of said I said oh you know this would make a nice engagement ring um and then we walked away and and then I guess later gayen went back and got it um without me knowing um and then I gave it to me on on New Year’s Day um so yeah it’s it’s quite big it’s quite heavy it’s entirely made out of silver it it is um we were joking that you canactually you could drink out of it because it’s a little little flour kind of like a cup and so um gayen poured a little bit of uh compari in there once got very sticky um anyway it’s fun um yeah what else is my news uh so when is the wedding uh I don’t know yet we’re that’s what we’re trying to figure out right now um we we we wanted we kind of wanted to get married in May but that’s too soon um and we want to take more time to plan and we want to make sure that everybody that that uh we want therewill be available so right now we’re we’re going to try to get in touch with people to see if they have particular conflicts later this year it’s it might be in July um and if if not July it might be in the fall and if not in the fall it might be next year um yeah we we we want to throw a big party and um and we want you know yeah we’re we’re not we’re not in a hurry it would be nice to do it this year um but it’s more important that the people we want there can be there than trying to do it this year so we’ll seewhat everybody’s schedules is like um what about having it at Heidi well I was going to say if if you three want want to get on planes you’re absolutely invited I don’t think I can get every all the hundred people in the US to get on planes to go the other way so um I’ll keep you in the loop um I know that’s it’s harder to travel these days but um and then we do want to come we do want to do a European trip sometime we were hoping this year but I think that’ll be next year and if we do I’ll definitely let all of you know um wellhon you’re still you’re you’re not where are you these days still still South Africa still South Africa okay I don’t know if I’ll make it to South Africa you can come and have the weding in Cape Town yeah yeah I would go to that I would definitely go Hony um maybe you can email that beautiful photo to beatric because I don’t know if she can see it I will I will yeah is that where you swam no no no that’s about that’s about it’s a few that’s that’s along the coast but it’s not so close but we werevery we were already in the area where the water was very warm but it was not there now there it’s very treacherous it’s actually called the Cape of storms because it’s very the most shipwrecks are in that area because the it’s it’s very Rocky and very treacherous to swim there as well not safe so beautiful yeah be H put a in the chat a gorgeous picture of the ocean in in I was I’m just thinking about going back to Heidi’s initiative about two different or contrasting even energies combining so in my opinion they shouldbe on a similar level of vibration if they are not then you get ghosting and then you get uh yeah so I’m hoping for Beatrice that she and her beloved are on the same level and it looks like it sounds like it so yeah we’re we’re a good match we uh we challenge each other to grow and are love having Adventures together and um have a lot of conversations about complicated things and and the world and feelings and intellectual Pursuits and um and we dance together sounds great yeah that’s important maybe you couldalso practice tangle because that’s very erotic combination there’s a lot of Tango in Portland actually it’s it’s um this is a really great City for tango um I haven’t I haven’t really gotten to explore it yet but I never thought about that Portland I know it’s it’s strange I don’t know why I don’t know why Portland Oregon is such a hub for Tango but but we heard that some people um they can go Tango dancing 10 times in a week so that’s more than once a day there’s enough there’s enough Tango dancing that you could do that if youreally wanted to well in our integral group in Vienna there are two couples that do Argentine Tango so it’s a good thing to do that together I wish I could with my husband but that’s not possible anymore yeah so enjoy it while it lasts that’s my be and I have been doing the Tango um since she was a baby the tango we have our own version from I don’t know if you know the film Some Like It Hot with uh with Marilyn Monroe and Tony Curtis and Jack Lemon and there’s a fabulous scene of Jack Lemon who ofcourse is in drag dancing with the old man o good um and Jack Lemon has a you you see eclipse and of course and then then later in the night you see him with a rose and it’s between his teeth and so beatric and I um imitate that at parties and in the swimming pool oh and in the swimming pool I forgot that’s right we Tango in the swimming pool oh gone are the days so you’re still driving yes it looks like good weather yeah it’s sunny the sun is returning um I’ve been hearing the birds and the trees outside the window whichis very nice and um spring is spring is springing um I mean that most of the trees are still pretty Barren still winterlik but um yeah Portland gets very gray in the winter so the return of the sunshine is a big deal um it’s always nice yeah we’re still in January so spring yeah I guess I guess yeah spring is coming early well monia you said you said that it’s 22 degrees in vietna it’s unbelievable that’s like almost summer weather I mean South yeah it’s when the northern part of the house it’s slightlycooler but the Sun not in the sun directly but yeah but the birds and the squills they act like it’s spring they just Chase each other and yeah well we’ll see yeah we saw a bluebird yesterday um we this weekend we went uh a little bit out of town uh to have a little getaway to um start to talk about the wedding and and plans for this year and uh we went to a Vineyard and walked Among The Vines and there was a bluebird jumping flying between different trees and Vines the blue bird of happiness that’sright yeah nice we were talking about people who don’t dare to to speak to you when they have to say something but then they write it in an email and then it comes strange so something yeah but I I wanted to ask you that in that person where is he from what’s his nationality is he um you talk to me yeah yeah uh like nationality Italian but from South to ro so Austrian more or less so German language um main language so it’s um it was really nice to to talk in this way because you fear the commonality becausewith Italians but it it was much more much more German though was um good I’m always curious Heidi you’ve lived how many 40 years in in Italy or something and and every time you talk about Italians it sounds sounds like you don’t feel much Affinity I find that so amusing that um and much more with Americans you have an affinity of course you were married to an American yeah but I find fascinating that um I’m here not for Mozart but for verie and Pini on the other that’s why I’m here and because of thesun otherwise I don’t really have a big reason to be here because it’s not I’m I mean the I had some experience with Italian man yeah it’s not to be repeated let’s say and women they are a little nicer but um also this is for me I mean I’m so much more let’s say even with all this learning with integral and and the people you know we we are together in the conferences and everything you hardly find anybody on this level here I I actually never met a pure Italian or a half American or something you know but not pure Italianto be able to to converse on as we were saying in the same level of vibrations you know and that’s why I always went to many for these uh encounters to to the to the group meetings and because I have the now the internet meetings because here you know small talk and everything yeah and you can go out for for for eating or something on even in the theater or something but it’s not what I’m interested in I’m interested in a sincere and more profound and um more interesting uh conversation that was awhy I was also a bit disappointed because with this guy we we talked very you know verbally intimate as very very easily about things and I told him a little bit about the levels of consciousness and he understood and so and I thought there is an opening and there could be the the some communality you know and then but obviously yeah you say it’s fear no obviously uh um to confront them to say no you cannot do it by by words and isn’t this a a stepping stone for for growing up to be able first to say I waswrong when I was wrong and second to say I you know maybe I disappoint you but I I need to to tell you but and listen to the other person also no that I think that there obvious is still an heroic way of being in the world to me it comes so normal when we talk together you know and also in the other group with Ramona and I can give her feedback I can give feedback to others others give feedback to me so that’s seems so normal but I forget that it is not the the normal thing that we can uh say what we see andwell maybe there is a difference between feedback and criticism yeah yeah I think so too and and but when you said fear I think shame comes up from his from what you shared Heidi I picked up when you talked about him shame on his side to say no he’s he’s a shame to be able to have to say no I don’t think so much from what I picked up from what you shared about him I I sensed shame I don’t know why that he might feel shame of being saying hey no you know what this is not going to work for me me forsomehow I don’t know because that’s for me different than fear I don’t know I don’t know it was because Victoria suggested that it might be fear saying yeah no no I agree with you H yeah I think fear fear is a big um you know fear is a a big container and I I think you’re right in this case the I I would say shame but but I feel like shame and anger and fear like all those all those emotions are kind of subterranean and um because I think a lot of anger comes from Fear too but anger also comes from shame and fear youknow it’s I think they’re all kind of interwoven in a in a certain way that they’re they’re where we feel vulnerable whether we we’re vulnerable because we have shame or guilt or we feel vulnerable because we’re being threatened by someone who’s stronger and seems more in control and I think a lot of I I know for myself because I have a lot of issues with anger the anger um when I when I when I can look back at the anger and see what what was what were the components there it’s always feeling vulnerable that for whatever reason inwhatever situation that the anger is my way of of um defending myself which is very you know very unskillful I you could have you could have awake you could have awakened something in him you know like and then he’s afraid of that because he feel something with you and then he’s afraid of what you bring out in him not that it’s bad at all it’s just something in him he might be in love with you no he’s got he’s got he he he feels a strong connection but it’s Awakening something within him that he’snot knowing how to have perhaps yeah so so he’s he’s too ashamed now to say to you even no this is not going so he’s using it via email because he’s worried that it will continue the connection will continue and I was hoping that it would continue because as it started it it seemed to be quite promising you know and it would have um how do you say reconciled another time uh my male um view of males I mean Mark was a big change in my uh view of of men or the others before were instead Mark was good but he chooseto leave so I would love to Contin to continue to to to continue the way as with Mark and I stopped when he died you know I would like to go ahead and to to explore further how you could be together and at the first s he seemed to be a possibility you know so I’m not in love or something but uh it was just uh attracted let’s say attracted not even physically but attracted by the possibility let’s say yeah do to not I I don’t hear you an no I was just showing the vibrational match was there so there experiences in life monyou didn’t say a lot today you didn’t oh I don’t mind listening it’s okay I know what I think and it’s interesting to hear what you are thinking um yeah I was just delighted by Victoria’s face when Beatrice turned up it’s pure adoration yeah yeah I was delighted too not as a mother but as a friend that you showed up again and that we can see you and that you have so good news yeah I’ve really I’ve really missed you all so much it’s still in my calendar every two weeks and every time I see the calendarnotification I feel a little sad CU it’s always been at a time I can’t join but um in two weeks I should be able to join CU I have a day off so so I’m going to try to come more if I can wonderful I’ve really missed everyone how long do you drive to work like 20 minutes 20 25 minutes yeah are you still driving no I I’m parked I’m here oh yeah wait can I show you let’s see if it works how do I flip the camera can you see the there’s a there’s a water out there where are you that’s the office outsidethe office oh I’ve never seen the office I’ve only seen the theater oh you’re still you haven’t gone to the theater yet no the building is right the building is right along the water I mean when we’re inside my my office has no windows so but um but it’s really nice when you go outside you can take a walk along the water wonderful so you have a nice day and a nice working day and Victoria also and we a nice evening it’s dark really black outside okay so we see in two weeks have a good bye bye bye bye