Here is a survey about YOUR future when you get older: How do you see the second half of life?
Please go to https://de.surveymonkey.com/r/8NZQ3XV
OUR FIRST COMMUNITY LIVE CONVERSATION – about AGEING
Hear our presentation at the INTEGRAL EUROPEAN CONFERENCE in Hungary,
May 6th, 2016
We were pleased and grateful to witness a lively interest in the topic.
You are invited to join the discussion by filling in the survey above and by joining our Facebook Group http://bit.ly/integralageing
Hear our pre-conference talk about what we will be talking about on May 6th, 2016 in Siofok/Hungary.
Learning and Quantum Theory
Heidi writes
This time, three members of Women Matters came together and gave a deeper insight in their way of seeing life, ageing and the world. Interesting enough, all three are interested in Quantum Theory, especially quantum healing. Experiences were explored and the development of the own development path, for instance from Reiki to Quantum healing.
We gave rich examples for the joy of learning, the importance of learning, where our excitement from learning new things comes from and what possibilities humans have when they seriously decide to learn as much as possible – not necessarily with the cognitive mind and about the material side of the world, but also, and especially, about the interior aspects of leaning and development.
The conversations took place in September 2024
Summary
A discussion on lifelong learning, quantum theory, and personal experiences emphasizes curiosity, transformation, and resilience in the face of life’s challenges.### Highlights-
🌍 The meeting reflects on global challenges and personal growth post-crisis.- 🎶 Participants share their musical backgrounds and the importance of creativity.-
📚 Lifelong learning is portrayed as essential for personal growth and development.-
👵 Ageism is addressed, highlighting the need for intergenerational learning.-
💡 Quantum healing is discussed, emphasizing intention and energy transformation.-
🌱 The joy of discovering new interests and experiences is celebrated.-
🤝 Connection and empathy are crucial for navigating personal and collective struggles.
Key Insights-
🌈 Lifelong learning fosters resilience and adaptability, essential traits for navigating life’s complexities. It encourages individuals to embrace curiosity and explore new interests.-
👩🎓 Ageism can hinder personal growth; challenging these beliefs allows for richer intergenerational learning experiences and community engagement.-
⚛️ Quantum healing emphasizes setting intentions and utilizing energy for transformation, showcasing the interconnectedness of mind and body in the healing process.-
🌟 Personal experiences shape our learning journey, revealing that setbacks can lead to profound growth and understanding, motivating us to seek knowledge and self-discovery.-
💖 Empathy and connection enhance our ability to support ourselves and others, promoting a collective resilience against societal challenges.-
🔄 The process of self-discovery is ongoing; embracing change and new experiences can lead to unexpected opportunities for growth and joy.-
🌱 The importance of addressing emotions and shadow aspects allows for a more holistic understanding of oneself, fostering a deeper connection with life.
by NoteGPT
monia isn’t here recording of the meeting today is the 7th of October 2024 of women years after the attack a year after the famous day which has thrown the world again in a deeper hole than it already was yeah so don’t think about it now we do the the the the but we have to own it yeah yeah okay do you want to start Aina and you need to know that I know Goud for a long time from the integral morph lovely lovely 2014 oh wow I think I’ve known Heidi not quite that long but maybe half of that it seems from when I started my businessI started my business eight years ago so close to that and I’ve actually been to se Heidi her wonderful Paradiso so how’s that yeah I still have to do that yeah we met also we met in the conferences and so we know each other also in person in how do you say in flesh yeah in the flesh and blood or In the Flesh same thing but yeah we met at the first um at the online course Ken Wilbur’s online course and he was so condensed and so packed that we said okay let’s meet once a week to all this and so for year so we hadthe weekly calls with Mark still lovely yeah and then 2016 we met and we had a nice lunch with d Ando yeah nice nice well as a way of introduction I’m calling you from uh Victoria British Columbia which is located uh on Vancouver Island which is a long island off the west coast of British Columbia uh I I I would show I don’t think you can see because I think it’s too bright but I actually Overlook America because the island across from me is the sanan islands which the British lost to the Americans during thewar of the pigs okay so um Victoria if you’re not familiar with is a very temperate C uh climate in Canada uh and uh so people come here and they can they’re free they don’t have the same burdens where we have a lot of snow and a lot of cold we do have a lot of rain in the fall but for the most part this is a very good place to be an older adult uh because it’s easier to be active safely all year round uh I am in terms of background my background is in Psychology I’m married I have two adult children one in fashion in Vancouver andthe other’s a lawyer married to a British girl in the UK so I have family that has sort of in different faes I I was uh for my profession I was originally in our Royal Canadian Navy as a Personnel Administration officer um and then due to the conflicts of being married service couples uh I got out of that and then became an expert in change management so I’ve worked for myself and for major consulting firms uh in terms of uh area of interest uh we sale with have the sailboat so we sale and uh I’m currently going toschool I’ve returned to school after more than 20 years since my upgrade course uh to do a master’s degree in social dimensions of health so I’m looking at older adults and H how do you motivate older adults who are not lifelong Learners to engage in learning so that’s NE wow it’s tough I could tell you and are you a harp player is that yeah I thought so wow yeah yeah thanks I just one day you have to have to play for us I was telling Heidi I don’t like playing for other people I find it too stressful yeah we don’t have to recordit we for us oh pH that makes all the difference yeah I guess it’ll be my first worldwide appearance though so you know I get that but it’s so I mean it’s just so beautiful to have this like just to have that in the room is makes a difference it really does yeah we have a piano too so yeah my husband’s actually I don’t have a lot of talent I can learn but my husband’s actually The Talented musician so good not me yeah good okay from Germany and so really in the middle uh 70 kilometers north of Frankfurtand I’m a mother of three adult daughters and since May a grandmother of five oh congratulations yeah thank you and my daughter the one with the baby they just got married so so the whole summer I was with my daughter before birth and then three weeks after so it was really like yeah to be in that special realm was really really amazing so I mean if you have a newborn on your chest you don’t need anything else it’s just more babies babies everybody get a baby yeah so so two have two and one is one andum I’m I’m in the trade of coaching and um yeah in the the I would say in the integral Consulting business Consulting so it’s called we flow and it’s born out of the integral realm and and I’m a trainer in that as well and appre IA inquiry I don’t know how much that says something for you so I’m a yeah nice practitioner and trainer in that as well and I have a new addition last year I became a fitness coach oh my goodness good for you yeah so it was I just wanted to lose some weight and um endedup with that bigre so it’s it’s uh yeah and it really transformed my body to do resistance training and things like that so forly I can teach that as well nice or at least consult that and um I have a new new addition so talking about lifelong Learners I think when I’m 90 I will still do something learn something new and this is called instant change which is like NE neuro uh science and and um quantum physics together to really make profound change yeah so that’s that’s me I will say something to to round thethe circle yeah sure but I already have inted what the topic could be lifelong learning okay yeah as you know I’m Heidi or ad he Some people prefer to call me adelheid because they say that it’s important that you use your real name for the universe and I don’t know what and so uh I didn’t use it so much because my father always when he was angry with me he called me Adel height ad height and so it was little bit you know like this not very appreciated but um I I’m fine now with the name I onlyHeidi is much more it’s much easier people understand it e more easily especially when you are in a different country you know are they hide how what you know while Heidi for the famous Swiss heidy they know uh something the sound and they know that that can be a name so what’s the meaning of Adel height Adel height I don’t know Adel is a nobility and hi I don’t know what it is so you can look it up it’s something very you know nobility I’m no oh I’m I’m with you I think you are you live in Paradiso yeah that’s true but that Ihave created that it’s not before birth so I see that I’m very very dark but it looks fine Heidi from here yeah yeah it looks good so talking about my uh present life is I have restarted to sing a little bit I have known a a Pianist a real artist who forets everything everywhere and and things like that but we start also to do some improvisations together and some leader although it’s different difficult in my opinion to we we will’ll see how we go on because he doesn’t understand German and for for leader you should alittle bit know what what the text is about so even for the for the company but it’s nice uh so the rest I did a lot in the garden in two weeks more or less I will start with the olive Harvest it’s still very much satisfying to me to be out and today I have a guest here we did the fire with the olive branches which I had already cut and had a grill on it and so my life is very quiet in in many senses apart if I didn’t have a computer and watched a lot of things also before we came in uh I watched quantum physicsum Anon singer and so another van I saw many things from Van and I’m very interested in these things that’s also because lifelong learning it seems to be a common a common uh connection but I also watch things about what is going on in the world and that’s um you know if I didn’t do that I I could be perfectly happy here and not noticing what is going on in the world so but I prefer to be aware of what is going on um yeah I think it’s for the moment uh is is enough I was a coach and I was a a voice teacher and voice developerlet’s say uh for many years but um I’m not really so I don’t like it anymore I like if somebody really wants to discover the voice you know but like singing lessons I no it’s it’s it’s boring so let’s jump over into the topic why do you think we should learn I mean I know it from from Gina because we did an interview and I have published it on the website the wdom factory. net uh so let’s talk about it do you want me I find found your name of noble um nature so you see I told you yes we already knew the answer it’s it’smissing the crown and the nice dresses you know but okay you dress more natural you start at Dina and then then we go around so I I would say that I’m I’m fortunate in that I like to learn I can I’m happy to self-direct my own learning uh I am curious and so because that Curiosity I usually just let it take me where I will um what I felt after my formal education looking back on it is that it was always a little too narrow it wasn’t very interesting it was repetitive there’s only one right answerto everything and particularly in C I found the curriculum to be uh very narrow so you know we’re only a little bit over 150 years old really and yet we focus on that as if that’s some uh great accomplishment so what I’m finding is that uh I I view learning uh as a child that it’s too structured and you learning as an adult where you’re free to follow and that can take you deeply or you can just skim over all sorts of stuff but uh you know in my profession when I was in the Navy we had to do training all the time and professionaldevelopment and same thing as a consultant but my learning in areas like grief and aging uh were really around personal experience uh that I wanted to better understand aging I wanted to better understand grief and so then I spent a lot of time in that and now I’m just learning about learning at in aging and I’m learning a lot which is kind of fun there’s all sorts of stuff about aging I didn’t know but my prop is pretty good about giving us some interesting stuff so it’s it’s I would say it’s a a curiosity thing like justhow you look at the world you don’t you’re not challenging the world I’m just trying to appreciate the world and the people who are in it with me so I just say that’s it didn’t you have that with Mark together conscious AG aging we did this for a while yeah yeah yeah we did the uh it’s still the website is still on con integral aging I think it is called intering I think so but I I sort of hardly ever go there maybe I put your interview there because it’s it’s sort of it was more Mark’s interest and umyeah although it I can’t deny that I’m aging I mean I I feel it uh walk up the the hill sometimes and I’m much more cautious with where to put my feet things like that they are undeniable but all together it’s it’s fine do you want to give your uh motivation for the Curiosity uh gout or for you can go you can go first okay yeah for me I think lifelong I was very curious and in childhood it was a negative thing I was blamed for being uh Curious and wanted to learn to see that to learn that to learn that nobut at least I was able to go to a choir and learn singing and uh singing in the choir no that was not yet singing but that was the only thing I could do it was also the time because I wanted to play tennis I wanted to all sorts of uh skating and things but it was a time where my parents didn’t have money for things like that I wanted to play piano we didn’t have a piano there was no place to to put it in the in the flat and things like that uh my sister later she could do everything but um I couldn’tso the the learning impulse was very much oppressed then at school I learned for a while I learned the V violon cello I got the instrument from the school and 15 minutes of lesson a week so it was not that I arrived very far yeah and then it was you know what do you study I wanted to then already I wanted to study singing and that was not an option so I studied other things and I became a little curious with Linguistics when I changed after a while from other subjects to linguistic that was quite interesting but then I wentinto singing after the exam and then I became curious why when I sing alone for instance no I was also very nervous always and then I felt also inadequate and um that was the reason why I came to Italy because I thought this is not my voice I have more potential I I knew it you know and so I came here studied a little bed and then learned it by myself and in the meantime all other sorts of curious curious uh for instance how to do the gardens I’m I’m not perfect in these things but I stop when it when it works then I stopbut so many interests I I have and um and the only thing I went to the bottom was singing teaching singing teaching how the voice works that’s the only thing I really think I a good competence then I did all the coaching things the the the counseling school and everything yeah I I know how to do that but uh it’s not as much embodied as the the singing thing yeah and now since the corona thing I got very curious in what is going on in politics I never was before and then I for how do you say diggingdown the the rabbit hole and this this puts you into a sucks you in and and and so many things I didn’t know not at all you know nobody taught us at school or wherever and then I’m like oh no of history and many things so I’m sort of learning not very diligently in the sense that I’m only listening and then I confuse where did I hear this where did I hear this but it’s more the overall picture which I came to the conclusion it’s everything different than I thought in this in in in in life and inin in the state and in the in the situation of the world and everything but this is outside and inside the Curiosity to explore States Of Consciousness and uh see what is going on in my body when I have strength feelings and so on strange Sensations and you know for instance how to to lower the heartbeat which is quite good with um when I’m anxious or something know I feel the heart is going with a breathing exercises and so on so yeah this is uh very much interest in this and I’m learning learning these things also I’mnot so much interested in any more in yeah in for instance I I never was in watching movies or or or reading novels and things like that more in in getting information like I don’t know did we talk here in this with you certainly not but Chris Bas LSD and the mind of the Universe I don’t know if I’ve ever mentioned that that’s really great um he is um uh he was a um professor in comparative religions and did in the ’90s he did this 20 year long uh Journeys with LSD into the Visions which he had given beengiven then it’s Po and I have to say I say it often that this book then is gave gives me the confidence that at the end everything will be good but not good in the sense that I might survive or somebody else but that life will survive and uh the transformation because there is an a chapter in this book it’s called the Great Awakening and um there is very clear that what is we are going to through as Humanity has been horrible in many many ways he says he has died many many death and and witnessed horrible things inthese sessions but in the great a Awakening then it comes out that the humans who will be still left will be completely different and uh and that’s it now my evaluation is they will be like Jesus uh gave the the teaching but it was a wrong wrong time you know so yeah things like that that I’m interested in learning so now after the long speech of mine I give over to you get out yeah thank you um I’m just thinking where where my to to learn to learning come from and I I’m not sure I think I was born thatway so like um for example others uh talk about where they want to go on a vacation or what trip they want to do my trips are mostly inward so like to to learn to uh yeah and and and an experience so I have I I can really like go with my mind into the the details um and and and be very specific and granular but mostly I’m more interested in in really like my experience in that and I think I’ve always uh like I’m coming from nutrition and home economics and and I was interested in people already there to to learn Consulting nutnutritional Consulting and things like that so right after my studies or my seventh um like in the exam my my seventh subject was was Consulting and uh what really brought me to to come in and and and do the work and and start uh do this therapy whatever things uh self-discovery was when my marriage broke down and and I knew when I go into a next um relationship I bring myself with me and then I started with my new relationship which is my now husband um we started the journey together so in a in um it wasG and out of this I I think I always learned better or so when I come to a wall and I hit a wall and and there’s no way out or so there’s something that there’s some like somebody tells me a friend goes to that Workshop or whatever that that might be then uh then there is something where I can yeah take over go over that wall so th this is like throwing the Hat over the wall and then climbing over it and uh I had some so I did nutritional Consulting in a more professional than just studies way and learned that andthen I was working in a dietetic center and there were binge eaters so like Bully MC but not um giving it away again so they had 150 kilos or so and one one day one woman said tell me please how I can stay I lost my my my my weight 140 kilos so yeah I lost my weight three times I know how to lose weight but tell me how how I can stay there and there were so many that really had life uh be it rape be it somebody died be it whatever and and then the nutritional habits went out of balance and so I I’veI realized it’s not just giving them the right nutrition so so I started a body therapy training and um yeah it was always like that so I come to I come to a wall and H how do I surmount that how how do I get across and then I learned that so and and also it’s at that time I know I have to do it it’s it’s kind of I don’t care what you say I have to do this and I will find the money and so and then years later I don’t use that for example I I give an example I I learned raiki one and two and the second so I used it until Ilearned something where I don’t have to do all in the symbols in in the in the air but so I know from from a meditation it’s called is shaya’s Ascension there is one attitude one [Music] um where I within seconds I’m in that contact and I can like distant healing do that so it’s not that Reiki was bad but it was a very big step towards that but now I have something that’s quicker and faster and and more effective so but I don’t but I’m so happy I learned that yeah well you know this is uh this is so I’m I feel I’m[Music] I’m it’s really hard to use the word efficiency but but it feels like faster quicker to what I really want and like now at the be at when I learned it it’s instant change is is like Quantum healing and whatever I learned in yeah factored by I don’t know so this this willingness to do it better and more effective more and to address exactly what I need right now so yeah so I collected quite a few certifications for for yeah I I have a license for therapy and uh whatever um yeah it’s it’s it’s kind of I think lifethrows at me all kinds of stuff and and how to deal with it in a better way and I know I have become a better parent through that and I don’t think that my marriage with somebody so different from me like my husband right now uh would have losted this was not possible um if I didn’t transform myself so so for me it’s there is a mental part to is to really understand what’s going on um and another one is to transform myself and when I learned something I really love to give it to other people to to pass iton and um my yeah I’m really good at oneon-one I like I’m I’m a coach from basic to master so like to be there with the people and really like my listening makes a difference so that’s nice yeah no this is a and I don’t think that would change so yeah that would be my next question what do you think how this will develop in the future going getting a little bit older every year yeah I think for example I looked at my I looked at my um thighs and felt like oh they’re getting old really getting old and then I came across 10x this thisum resistance training and I wanted to learn it and um so then I really did it so so my score you don’t have to know how that’s uh calculated but but my score was 1.6 at the beginning and my highest so I’m I’m a little sloped back but uh was eight okay and they say after seven it’s fit you’re fit so and I can see my my muscles transform I lost weight and and so it was really like to learn it to really intellectually learn how my body works and then to apply it and I think even if I was in a wheelchair I would doJody spener or whatever to to if not transform my body but to be able to be with what life throws at me and and and be happy with that yeah something like that nice so we have something in common there um I actually did the raiki levels up to raiki master and then at some point uh I did the qu a Quantum healing and that was the transition too was taking it from well I’ll call the slow symbol method which feels like uh like a like a crutch you need but later when you do Quantum you know you don’t need thecrutch anymore so it’s good for learning like a like a child’s Walker but uh for later it uh yeah the quantum was quite fascinating yeah and you know I think Quantum in general is fascinating yeah yeah and now we put some factors on that yeah so I wonder if you can explain what you mean with Quantum healing I think most people don’t know and I don’t either so you might uh explain a little bit both of you um okay I’ll give the I’ll give the amateur version so in my amateur version uh you you don’t do the symbols uh you set anintention and you’re you allow your intuition to take you to where for when I was learning where where we needed to touch and then we just stayed in the moment and we touched and it was like you were focused on sending energy from yourself to that person to either diagnose and then try to heal H but from a distance perspective it’s more like you connect with the person as if as if you’re calling them on the phone you like Reach Out spiritually and then for me I do sometimes a body scan or I just sort offeel about where does where does it need to be and I’m purposely sending uh en to them and then receiving uh information back about what they need or how they’re feeling and not everybody not necessarily about curing but sometimes it’s just about understanding um so for instance if someone has liver cancer you’re like okay we we at liver are we and and you just sort of you accept it for what it is maybe you can do something about it maybe you can’t but um just sometimes embracing people uh with with love and protection issometimes uh where I end up so that’s my my primary I I I can resonate pretty much with that and and for me it was a little slightly different so what we did is really to take out what’s not working so like energetically take out what’s not working and then reach into the field and let that quality the so you set the intention to bring power to bring love to bring whatever quality is needed to to this um to the liver to the whatever that might be and uh now in um instant change it’s yeah about that like uh Primal energythe the the the whatever that Quantum field is but this like the end into um what do you call it foring reinforcement yeah and enforce this by 500 100,000 or so to and this is the energy that all the time all the the the the photons they always go through us so it’s it’s like always coming from above through us and you reinforce it and you set the intention what you want to bring in and this washes away what what’s hindering behind the blockages to to melt that away and uh it’s really like I had aknee problem and somebody was working with me and right after that I went into the basement to bring the the laundry there and it was still hurting and two two hours later I wanted to to take it out of the washing machine and and went upstairs and was gone so it was really there are some very interesting things happening yeah and this is the Quantum uh uh the quantum field and and so on because I was wondering what quantum theory um as Quantum quanta is very small and uh people say Quantum Leap andmean a big one so I was always a little bit confused about that no this this is like Quantum is just not just one it’s a whole field that that really goes through us all day long and it’s not specific and and that what we do is to specify it and to really set the intention and if this person says yes I want to change that then there is a whole field that that reinforces that and takes out what doesn’t doesn’t fit what doesn’t work with it that’s interesting yeah so when we think about people whomight listen to this afterwards uh what would you say I mean people in our age so we are talking about yeah yeah excuse me excuse me you talk I have to at the dog okay I I I have I thing that helps me is I have a friend who who’s curious as well and and he has a brilliant mind and so he has lent me Quantum books uh I think I first started playing with it in the holographic Universe book um but just appreciating that what we perceive is real as only as we make it and you know when I said to one person once theywere hiding behind a chair I said you realize there’s more space in the chair than there is matter right you do know that so like what’s the chair going to do for you um but it’s it’s it’s so hard to hold two belief systems at the same time but what I appreciate from Quantum is that it’s not stable and that the observed You by observing something you change it we observed it changes you and it’s this back and forth and it’s a moment in time but then it’s the next moment so uh I think the concepts aredifficult to explain but um there’s some really I can’t remember his name but the British fellow who I think does a pretty good job of explaining it but the other aspect is the the physical aspect of what we’re now calling the microtubules which I don’t know if you’re familiar with micral very like I will just call it the tiniest thing we been able to find yet in ourselves and how they communicate because there’s communication and uh how they help a sense and and this is also how trees can talk to each other and plants can talkto each other and we can talk in our bodies and the university here has one of two microscopes they can see a micro Tu but that opens a whole new world of understanding healing and sickness and not not our conven conventional I don’t know if you’ve ever watched a Star Trek where the doc says good Lord Jim these people are using knives you know it’s sort of feels like we’re transitioning from a a very primitive form of viewing our health and our ability to heal to more of the star treack where he takes his little andgoes oh yes okay there you go now you’re fine it’s not such a leap when when you get into Quantum healing yeah and what what’s interesting that if we look at an atom then we have this the M um matter is just 0 z z z six zeros and a one uh compared to the space in which the the the nuclear and the the um electrons so if I have my thumbnail and this is the the nucleus and then all around Germany Switzerland and Austria are the electrons and and so this is really like it’s energy the rest pretty muchthat’s information and [Music] um yeah energy and and and what we do in what we do in normal circumstances or so we work on this 0.001 to to make things work like um normal medicine or so they give you a pill or they fix the broken arm or so and it’s very good to to have that but the rest that’s where we are working with fuming really like to to change that energy field and and Joe dispenser is is also somebody who’s really doing a lot of research in in this in this field and it’s about getting to a high energy levellike to to have elevated emotions like love and uh joy and and the others they they bring you more and more to that more meta related field and and so really like consciously to go into this I want to have gratitude I want to have love in my life I want to have uh joy and uh focus and yeah so and and so you you more and more get drawn to to this when you yeah when you look at all the war things or so what you said HEI being drawn into h a rabbit hole this is an energetic process that brings you downto to that more matter like area yeah and to lift us up that that’s the most important part and to set that intention and to be connected to those I agree but I think both is important no as we know from integral going down into into the shadows and then going up into it it’s it’s timely because I I’m was listening to all these uh talks about um quantum physics and there was the image if you take out the space in your in your body no between the nucleus what would be left from you would be likethis exactly yeah yeah it’s incredible want to think about it yeah but would you say it’s not that you look at those but if you go with the energy if you go with the downward emotions then you’re drawn into this and and it’s hard to get out of it but if you You observe and and be with your awareness and say oh interesting exactly this is and you know then it’s it’s different I think exactly and we have planned for next Sunday for the salon to talk about that this time last time yesterday or when it was we talked aboutthe the the things which are going on and our attitude to that and next time we want to talk how are we uh in the face of uh how do we deal it and I already thought from my own experience it is also there is a development because I noticed at the beginning completely immersed in these things and then slowly you come out and go into the Observer position and I realize when for instance I fall back into the melting with a topic then my heart begins to do this uh story and I do the the breathing and I notice oh okay you were nowidentified with or too much touched by it you know I mean yeah it’s good to be touched because not to see it neutral when you think about thousands and thousands of people dying but not not being melted into it you know and this I think is also a process of capacity to to to develop and I don’t think what many people do is to avoid going into this that’s it’s it’s not a good alternative I think you have to go through this very difficult moment of realizing and then develop a capacity a resilienceof of of handling these things listen to these things and not getting uh destroyed let’s say by by hor that’s one of the things I’m about learning you know at the moment I’m I am learning another learning aspect of life yeah yeah and and it’s not working to to pour pink sauce over what’s not working no yeah it’s also in relationship I mean you have to address certain things to to make it work but I think the the intention is also like do you want to to go there for fearmongering do you want to go therefor blaming do you want to go there for all these negative feelings or do you want to observe it to be clear what’s what so and then to look what is your part in making it better or transforming it exactly and raising Consciousness Al together you know my own and if possible also helping other to to definitely that is my intention and not being entering into depression because of the horrible of the word you know so yeah yeah yeah nice yeah and to to dig deeper and to learn more this is just a joy I meanit’s not it’s I don’t know it’s like I I I was I was in charge of four nursing homes and we had like uh people that were in charge of the the cleaning ladies and so and in one of those houses there was one who was five years younger than me at that time and I offered her a place into um like to what do you call it house um so who are in charge of cleaning um laundry and things like that and to learn that professionally and have a certification and she said oh no I’m too old I’m I mean she was like 40 40 five yeahso and and and then I gave it to somebody else and she said you know she was so happy and and I was so shocked I mean she was really five years younger than me and and and she got it for free and she could could just one day in the week she could just learn everything and and I couldn’t understand that but she just didn’t want to so that’s one I the reason I laughed is because I I’ve been putting together my research proposal and when I when I talk about agism I talk about not just how people treat you but how you treatyourself and the fact that we have an I don’t know if you have it in Germany but we say you can’t teach an old dog new tricks and we believe that and so we don’t bother and so we don’t bother teaching older people we assume how older people learn and you don’t you think it’s too late and then you focus on the denigration of your health uh versus the you know the the as you say the joy that comes from learning and and even learning how to be a healthier adult um but we had at 70 year 79 year old in the training last year in theFitness training yeah oh laoren laa from South Africa yeah she was 83 and did BHD with 83 unfortunately I might do that no reason not to sorry I interrupted you Gina no no you didn’t I was I was just adding on that that’s that’s the funny story that’s the part of the dance is what is the belief system and soon as you take away that belief system and substitute another one some people you know the cycle of adoption it’s the early adopters and then a few more but once you got about 177% you’re pretty muchOff to the Races and what we’re seeing is U the creation of a standard for age friendly universities so to be able to embrace all ages so not just uh older adults but just creating a whole different experience on the richness that comes with intergenerational learning uh in a different format other than just in the family because I think we used to learn a lot within family uh and now that we’re separated we don’t tend to think about passing down like do you know how to do this have you do you know how todo you know how to sew in a button I mean there’s a simple little thing people do people sew in buttons anymore but an interesting canning in Co all of a sudden everybody wants to learn how to can again so anyways I think it’s I think it’s a you have to treat it with a little bit of play fulness uh your own life experiences even the the darker ones is like you go down the rabbit hole you go that was fun and then you come back take a look around and have a little laugh about what you’ve learned or even tear aboutwhat you’ve learned and and then just go on keep going I mean that’s really what we have to do yeah I don’t one of those enlightened Masters she said um we’re here to expand love and learning yeah and I think people who don’t want to learn either have the false beliefs which you were saying or in childhood they have to be so put down in this desire to learn because children want to learn and when from the very beginning it is pushed down then they might not be able to recover this uh enthusiasm of learning something new andthat’s really a shame I feel it very sorry for for people who have lost this capacity because I imagine that life must be very boring very gray and everything like that when you have no new excitement about learning something new discovering something new which know before I mean I have to say when I was 27 and in a marriage and uh horrible things I mean I really thought I’m old and um there was the moment of Liberation where I prepared for The Liberation when I thought if this is life no so you know and that reallypushed me out and discover many many things and I ended up here and still discovering every day ladies we are at the end of our hour was very nice to to see you both together and also G that you came back again and hopefully we next time we’ll be a bit more crowded in this room yeah sorry I was family absorbed yeah yeah know everybody has something that’s good but an an um um conversation in three is also nice you know because when there are six or seven people then that’s a different Dynamics and so Ilove it too so thank you and maybe a short check out yeah I I just wanted to say John Keo I don’t know if he’s still living so he might be 90 if I I had a um I had a workshop with him which was phenomenal who is that who is that John kho I put him in a chat and he has written some books the the mind mind everything about mind so he was one of the first to to to do this work and he has written Quantum Warrior and and Jun you see him sitting there on a chair an old man I mean you really see that he’s old his he’s kindof um skinny like an old man not so much and then he stands up and is starting to teach and he was jumping over over this stage and he was like and and he he told us he was healing himself from the future so he was going into his future life and in the healthy vers version of it and then said what do I need right now to fix because he couldn’t move his back was so in pain and he said he did that for hour or two so to to really ask his future self what he needs to do and then he’s got up and wasgood so I learned quite a bit from him about Quantum field and yeah so that’s what I wanted to add because I put him in the chat thanks Gina take out wordss um just thank you a pleasure to meet you go and uh I enjoyed our conversation and I always think this is a magic in three and uh the other thing I like to say is that the right people show up at the right time so this that’s how I see the three and it was very enjoyable so thank you Heidi and thank you gr and thank thank you both of you and I just uh got ordered it’s not yetarrived the book from this I think is called UL van and three books one of it is quantum uh Theory and spirituality and so I’m very curious about that and maybe we talk time yeah we can talk about that okay have a good evening have a good day for you din Take Care by bye bye bye bye bye
OUR PRESENT TEAM
Alone or lonely?
Does being alone mean being lonely?
Heidi writes
When you are alone, does this necessarily mean that you are lonely? Or vice versa? Do both states of being necessarily belong together?
The women of Women Matters discuss their experiences of feeling lonely, Yes, that often happens when we are alone and nobody around or likely to come and see us, But it happens, too, that we can feel lonely while with other people, for instance at a party or even sometimes in family, when we don’t connect with each other.
Being together with others can be a wonderful way of passing one’s time, But do we really want that ALL the time? Don’t we sometimes grave to be alone and do our own thing instead of having to adapt to other people’s needs and desires? So being alone gives also the feeling of joy and freedom, it can be a desired state where being alone does not mean at all being lonely.
You can imagine the many variants where this topic can go, You can check the AI produced highlights under the video below and decide which part of the conversation would be most interesting to you. It would be nice if you write us your thoughts on the topic!
The conversations took place in September, 2024
Summary
The discussion explores loneliness, emotional connections, and the impact of the pandemic on social isolation among women, emphasizing the importance of community and relationships.###
Highlights-
🗨️ Women discussed their personal experiences with loneliness and connection.-
🌧️ Monia shared about the aftermath of flooding in Austria and its political implications.-
🎉 Christine is excited about upcoming family events, including a wedding.-
🤝 Victoria talked about her studies on aging and loneliness.-
🌍 The group reflected on the global impact of the pandemic on social interactions.-
📚 Heidi emphasized the importance of deep conversations versus superficial ones.-
🔄 The recurring meetings strengthen their connections and reduce loneliness.###
Key Insights-
💬 **Importance of Connection**: Emotional and spiritual connections are vital for combating loneliness. Building relationships creates a sense of belonging. –
🌐 **Global Experiences**: The pandemic has affected everyone, leading to collective trauma and increased feelings of isolation, highlighting the need for community support.-
🧠 **Coping Mechanisms**: Engaging in conversations and sharing experiences can alleviate feelings of loneliness and foster deeper connections among participants.-
📖 **Individual Differences**: People experience loneliness differently; some enjoy solitude while others crave social interaction, indicating varying personal needs.-
🎭 **Cultural Influences**: The way individuals express their feelings about loneliness is often shaped by cultural backgrounds and norms, affecting how they seek connection.-
🕰️ **Recurring Engagements**: Regular meetings and interactions, whether online or in person, strengthen relationships and provide a platform for open discussions, reducing feelings of isolation.-
🎉 **Community Resilience**: The ability to share experiences and support one another in difficult times illustrates the resilience of community bonds, fostering hope and connection.
women mattes in September the end of September 2024. and we thought about talking about loneliness as Dina reminded me unfortunately she is not visible today there is some bug with a video camera too bad because we are missing your nice face we will have to find out uh just listen listen listen for me it’s more difficult to to listen and understand when I don’t see the person somehow the movement of the of the mouth makes it easier for me to understand anyway we start with the check in uh yeah Gina that’s good leaveit like this okay how you how it is monia would you would you to start well um monia from Vienna in Austria and the weather is has calmed down the rain has stopped the flooding has stopped but there’s a lot of work still to do because some of the districts were really severely damaged and yeah it will cost a lot of money millions and millions and some like a a butcher a very ex an excellent meat producer the whole everything was flooded and even his trucks were flooded so it’s it’s really extremedamage and we will have elections um next Sunday and uh yeah it’s it’s really strange uh politics are just amazing sometimes and everybody thinks they will he will win and all other think think he won’t win and so it’s just yeah it keeps us on our toes depending on whether we try to to exclude almost majority of the population because they are rtists which isn’t it’s just that they are not left and uh but because there is an other party that is in the middle so they have to be right and but but you can’t be right youhave to be extremely rtist so it’s uh yeah and this is what I guess all of Europe is concerned with it right now and one of our former C chancellors said that to exclude a part of the population is just wrong you can’t exclude anybody because in in particular if they have almost a majority of the people so that’s uh yeah it’s very it’s very unsettling and uh I wondering about post Democratic situations this was a topic that came up in our recent Salon integral Salon uh what is post Democratic is thisactually something that’s better the way we now live democracy maybe it’s so we still have to find out and this is will be a topic in our next interal so long uh yeah I’m fine my husband isn’t too we were out on the street today and shopping and going to the bank and it really it’s strous for him and that upsets me too but that’s the way it is and we are going to manage Christine I’m passing over to you you are still in the morning and fine it’s the morning here in carlbad California and uh yeah anotherday another week um things are pretty good here uh we’re waiting for our election but we’ve got longer to wait um if people don’t die before it happens I don’t know maybe I don’t the the craziness is just almost unspeakable but um what else uh I don’t know getting ready to be out of town for a little bit um we’re going to Las Vegas for a few days because uh Tom’s college football team is playing in Las Vegas so we wanted to go see them they’re his college is on the East Coast so it would it’s an unusual opportunityto be able to see the football team so we’re going to go to Las Vegas for a few days to see that and then we come back for just a few days and uh Anise is getting married in Massachusetts so we’ll be off to the east coast and stay with my sister and see a lot of family and friends back there so looking forward to that um wanted to see uh suzan uh cook reuer but she is going to be at the Africa conference because we she’s in the town next to where my sister lives so we’ve often gone to see her um but she’ll she’s in South Africafor the conference um and also touring around so that’s good because she had said years ago she was going to stop traveling so a good thing that she is able to um to do that I think she’s 76 77 at this point so she’s yeah that’s good um yeah not a whole lot else I’ve been trying to I’m I’m putting my toes in the water to participate in uh helping with the election uh phone banking um I’m going to do uh training this week I don’t know that I’ll be able to do it as a pole Watcher in Nevada but that’s another state and I don’t know ifI’ll even qualifi to do that but I’m going to investigate it and see because I just feel like if this election doesn’t if if Trump gets reelected I will be very mad at myself that I didn’t participate or try maybe feudly to do something uh to help the Harris campaign so anyway um and I will pass off to line thank you uh yeah the election really dominates here as well I mean when I say as well I mean uh based on what you said monia it’s it’s ever presentes and there is that especially from that integralperspective what might follow democracy now that the fear I know this is sort of not exactly my personal life but it it becomes it feels very personal because it’s terrifying to think that in our situation it feels like what would follow democracy is back to autocracy and that’s the real fear you know um it’s like what Germany dealt with in the 1930s you know we have a we have fascism On The Rise and it’s really truly terrifying um monia it’s interesting that your group was considering from a more open-minded situation what mightfollow democracy and that I think that’s a really important question but in our country it feels like we’d be going backwards and we have left behind it was like you were saying that one of the people running for office says we can’t leave anybody behind and that’s really true I mean the far right in this country I think um came from a lot of neglect you know uh and a lot of trauma and our our nation shrank the institutions that could have supported them so that all feels very much in the air and very very scaryso you might find us knocking at your doors and we’re all moving to Europe trying to get my EU passport lined up so that to facilitate this but anyway on a personal level I’m putting my house up for sale and that should happen in mid October so the next time I speak with you I may be homeless who knows uh at least for a while so um and it’s a big decision because uh part of what I leave behind is remnants of my married life and so that becomes you know kind of a psychological step and a kind of agrowth step uh and that feels like a really good thing to do even though I can’t seem to find a place I like so I’m not going to worry about that I’ll put my stuff in storage and I’ll go sleep on people’s couches for a while I don’t or rent a place you know so it’s a lot of sudden activity and preoccupation and part of me loves having all that stuff to do and you know part of me is wondering if this is the right thing so I carry that hope on one shoulder doubt on the other and that’s where I’m at and I will pass it on toHeidi okay thank you yeah I mean Europe is not better we are already in a pre fascist State pre pre totalitarian uh governments uh so I don’t know it seems to be worldwide and uh also all this election stuff it seems to be ridiculous in some way and so I I’m I’m curious mon do you do this online then I will come and join you this Salo talk about the post Democratic we’re doing it on Zoom yes you can invite me you’re very welcome I’ll send you the link okay as soon as I have it because it’s usually posted twoweeks before great yeah I’m take a note okay and to me I’m I’m quite fine I’m still in the same situation as before people come and go and my dream to have people stay has not yet come come through my olives are have four more weeks and then I start with the olive Harvest and I love to be outside so my vegetable for the winter is already planted and starts growing and um yeah all together I’m fine I have to say really it’s it’s good with all the preoccupations going on but they seem to be on another level they seem to be somesomehow present but not touching me too much so yeah I would uh give over to Gina can we cannot see and I see also Victoria has come I hope your camera is working because din’s not working so first Tina and then you okay and then you can put the video on thanks Heidi um so yes uh it is a a foggy day here in Victoria we we have been promised uh uh good warm weather in 24 degrees range but it seems that that’s not uh coming any time soon I’ve had a interesting week uh I finished week three at school and I think I’madjusting to it uh it is different but I’m looking for different ways to cope with that and one of the ways we coped is we took all the plants that we bought last week and started getting them to the Garden on Saturday so that is helping our garden recover from the winter kill that we had uh early this year yeah so I’m you know I’m a little tired but I’m happy to be here with uh all of you and to have this conversation and to just sort of be with people in terms of Elections we have uh two going on so at ourprovincial level uh this this fall and federal next fall we’re we’re a little bit different uh in Canada in that we’re very concerned about what happens in the States but at the same time we also feel like there’s some erosion of what we consider our basic rights but we’re far more subtle about it so it sneaks up on you versus is right in your face so we we have a far um more uh influence uh from our our first Nations our indigenous in and mate people uh and how we’re coming to terms with reconciliation and our country and thatis that is going to cause people on both sides to be quite uncomfortable and we’re not really sure where that’s all going to end it’s a challenge and uh occasionally I’ve thought about gosh my my uh my son’s in the UK I’m like maybe I’ll just go live with my son but you know for now we’ll stick with Canada because we’ve actually got it pretty good here okay and I’m passing it over to Victoria is that right yeah there you go Victoria nice to meet you can you open your camera Victoria hi yeah I’m in the middle of aa huge project here so I may have to go on and off um sound and Camera um unfortunately it’s a there’s a lot going on right now um I haven’t met Gina before I’m not I’m not sure um Gina could you introduce yourself too or or is I thought we I thought we actually did meet now I see you I actually recall you oh um it was two weeks ago oh I’m sorry okay it’s okay don’t worry about it uh so Gina from Victoria I’ve known Heidi for many many years through her wisdom Factory group um and I’m going you may remember I’mgoing to school I’ve re-entered school at the Master’s level and so I’m integrating into a very diverse uh University studying aging and uh learning as a way to deal with loneliness depression and Social isolation for older adults wow fabulous okay well I apologize if I met you before that’s okay must that’s the problem today because maybe if I saw you yeah I’m very visual you can’t see me yeah sorry about that that’s my camera I’ve been playing with it but I can’t I’ve done everything I’m just not g to be disruptive anymoreokay well anyway thank you um so let’s see uh yeah I’m I’m I was in a in a um I’m taking a c well it’s just a four-week course um Be not Afraid um taught by Peggy and Larry what what you were frozen continue go you can’t hear me no we could couldn’t for a moment but now we can oh okay oh all right it’s probably the room I’m in um well all the rooms are noisy I’m try I tried to find the least noisy room right now um okay let me know if I wave or something if I freeze again or I well okay can you hear me now yeah yeahgo no yes yes okay um okay um so oh so I’m taking this course called be on afraid and um and it’s all about uh well it’s a Buddhist it’s a Buddhist couple that worked with tignan for 25 years they’re the teachers um and her approach is totally about somatic experiencing and getting rid of trauma through somatic exercises and interventions and his whole approach is very very high intellectual spiritual philosophical so they’re really interesting couple um in many ways he’s African-American and she’s um comes froma Catholic Midwestern background so in every way they’re like poar opposites are really fabulous um anyway what I realized yesterday and I’m realizing it again today unfortunately is that um I’m operating at like panic mode all the time I’m and my level of anxiety is so high I’m having to work like minute by minute just to keep my feet on the ground it’s really um so so it was interesting when Lorraine twice you said the word terrified and I and I immediately just like went into I mean I’m not saying it to blame you at all II I know exactly you know I’m I’m I’m here too in the thick of the pre-election anxiety um but it I’m just I I’m realizing that I need to do a lot of work right now to to keep myself um balanced and grounded and interestingly enough um there there’s so much drama going on in my immediate immediate situation that the political situation seems very remote to me at the moment even though I’m I’m obviously um anyway that just occurred to me when you said the word terrified twice I thought I thought well I do feelterrified but what am what exactly am I terrified of um and actually the yeah the only other I wanted to say um is that because I’ve been mulling over it now for for the last three days um I was in another one of my groups and um and was put in a breakout group with a woman who um who said that she believes that the whole world is suffering from trauma because of um the pandemic and she said something really interesting um I mean maybe everyone said it at some point but it really struck me and and sank in andI’ve been thinking about it for quite a while the last few days she said um we we you know we deny grief anyway in our culture and we never give time and I’ve lived through that and my daughters lived through that and that’s why we’re still you know still battling to come out from under the trauma of the the losses we’ve experienced the the grief because we’re never given time to grieve in our culture it’s just move on get going get back to work get back to school get back to you know daily lifeand um and so that what this woman said that really struck me was she said our whole planet is going through this and it doesn’t matter what the circumstances were sorry that’s water I’m in my laundry room um she said it doesn’t matter what the circumstances um were for us personally during the pandemic we the whole planet went through it in one way or another in one experience or another and and as soon as it was uh possible to get back out and to work you know then the masks were off or whatever it was just go youknow get back catch up with where you left off you know catch up for L time make more money go back to work and so um so she attributes the all the hostility and anger and rage and frustration that that one sees at least here I don’t know what it’s like in Europe but um she used Starbucks as an example she said that uh because I guess she goes there every day and she said before the pandemic people were just falling over themselves oh how can I help you today what would you like and you know the really the customerfriendly thing and smiling and and gracious and explaining what the things were the choices and she said now you go she goes in to the same Starbucks and all the employees are huddled in a corner complaining they’re complaining about the employer about the customers the customers are so obnoxious they don’t like the customer or they’re tired or they’re whatever and she said the whole the whole mood is so dramatically different and this is the same in her experience the same place that she’s been going for years so anyway I justwanted sorry that was a really long check-in but um I I just wanted to um respond to this this the the terrified sorry to keep saying that but you said it twice and I thought if she says it the third time I may have to leave the call okay thanks everybody I have a drama right here now with flooding so I’ll be I’ll go off thank you okay so I’m here but you gave me the the possibility to tie back to the topic because it’s not only the pandemic as you call that uh it is long before that we went into separation separationseparation separation and this uh covid time it was accelerating the the separation of people you know the the um in in the distance between one and the other should be a meter or two or something I mean more extreme you cannot separate people from each other you know and before already uh people were very lonely especially older people and with this what they did I don’t know how it was in America but in Germany when the first cases of uh covid seem to have happened uh then uh old people died alone in the old people’s home and werenot allowed the the family was not allowed to to to assist them I mean more loneliness cannot be when when in the dying you you are not uh cannot say goodbye to your your family and I found this really very very very cool so Gina we would you want to to to say something about this loneliness topic you are yeah so I think that what I found really uh challenging is that this was apparently for our and I’m going to use the term seniors because it’s more the scop can probably handle that um the fact that not only were they kept fromtheir family they were kept from each other so they were essentially put into social isolation in their room and the most contact even if you’re on a ground floor you you could touch through a window but you couldn’t actually experience human touch so loneliness took on not just real access to people but not even within the confines of this restricted uh setting and and the people who were fighting and fighting and fighting to bring um to change those rules I mean caregivers could go in and they could uh put on protective clothingmuch like uh we do in icus but that wasn’t going to be enough and yet the damage that we’ve done to to those people plus the access of their children and their grandchildren not to have that those conversations normal conversations with um their Elders I and the fact that we didn’t fight that that this was for our own good and we had to collectively respect something for our own good like we wouldn’t even let children play on playground equipment anyways it it just it just the fact that we didn’t uh that we didn’thave a stronger voice it concerns me that somebody’s the state is telling us what is our good when in fact I think the damage is actually irreparable for older people and I think that as you say uh we’re all having a real entry re-entry uh Challenge and I don’t think that people appreciate that so I think to uh to Victoria’s point it assumed that you could just go back to normal quote normal so yeah that’s my thought but anyway all these experiences and this especially leaves a trauma in in in in everybodyeven in US I mean we have changed every one of us has changed by this um how do you say extreme ruling of our totalitarian States I say that very um uh how how do you say drastically but that word totalitarian measurements which they have imposed on almost everywhere in places like Italy or even maybe in Africa and other places they find a way to go around it you know and uh I did certainly to to not um to to continue my life let’s say in other words uh but yeah the loneliness I could feel it too I had my animals here no but Ididn’t go to certain uh places where they ask masks because I was strictly against masks and strict so I put myself out of uh the still possible communication because I don’t want to talk with people who I don’t see the mouth so as I said before Gina is for me it’s much more difficult to to understand uh without seeing the mouth the people faces of people anyway but my loneliness during life I I know that I have a lot of loneliness in me since childhood because I was not right in some way so and I was different in thefamily and that’s automatically creating loneliness but I think also my sister and my brothers have this ground feeling of being left alone you know after the war the parents were still shocked uh from what had happened they didn’t talk about it and they didn’t grief about it and we are the generation who grew up in silence but also in distance they they were not really near our parents I don’t know how it is with monia she all still experienced some some some war no War uh years so it is not only the co time is acollective experience but it’s um also in in war maybe not but I don’t know my personal experience is this so I would like to know what your take on this is on on loneliness and how do you well Heidi you are of course right I had a lonely childhood but I was overprotected by my mother and my grandmothers and listening to you uh I noticed I’m not lonely anymore uh contrary I am swamped with attention from everybody the family uh my friends and I have to sort of fend for myself to get some space to be by myselfuh of course my husband and I are together 24 hours a day and he then sits here where I’m now sitting now in the study and I’m in the living room or on the balcony uh because otherwise uh we would be just yeah it’s I don’t mind being by myself when I don’t find it lonely when I’m by myself self um and as a matter of fact we now started to invite people for conversations to our home because my husband doesn’t go out anymore quite hardly and we had quite unusual conversations uh because I tried tointroduce this kind of uh letting somebody talk and then let it sink in and then you respond to that and they were not used to that but we had a really very deep conversations so maybe I’m just stirring against the whole uh movement as it is now because it’s not my my experience um yeah I was uh recommending just to Victoria a book I just read and it’s really fascinating it’s by someone who is very depressive and he had several breakdowns and he’s called M hike and it’s notes from a nervous Planet becauseit says the whole planet is very very as you mentioned it very very uptight and uh as a matter of fact we had a soccer game yesterday today and it it when it ended there was so much fighting on the by the fans on the playground and they used fire and bomb it’s ridiculous so it’s this is now a generation that never experienced the war as you said and uh yeah it’s really you can get very apprehensive about how things will develop okay that’s just my take on loneliness uh as I said uh being by myself and loneliness is differentso uh maybe we could just distill what makes us feel lonely if you could try uh Christine what what makes somebody feel lonely um probably not having uh emotional or spiritual connection with anything I mean because being alone is different than a lot of people tolerate being alone just fine um I don’t mind being alone but um loneliness is more like feeling you don’t have connection maybe friends are not responsive um just feeling a drift and I as people were talking I was thinking for myself I’ve got uhfomo and I don’t know if you guys know what fomo is but it is f m o f m o it stands for fear of missing out and this is one of the says that the kids have which uh you know is basically you want to do stuff you want to be a part of things you don’t want to be left out you want to be a part of things um and I definitely have fomo but I don’t you know it’s interesting and I don’t mind doing things by myself but I want to have experiences so it’s not that every time I want to do something it’s that I’m Desiring to get away fromloneliness but I do want to feel like I have a life that has some Vitality some connections some enjoyment some Pleasures um and when I hear about things going on that I’m not a part of I get fomo so there’s a difference I guess the I’m going to go back to what you asked mon which I guess is just not feeling a connection makes us feel lonely like we don’t like things are going on we have this perception that people are doing things people are connected with each other and we’re somehow left out of thatum and it you can be with people and feel that way or you can be alone and feel that way yeah thank you does anybody else get fomo I I’m I’ve got a a chronic case b big time foma um which I’m trying to work on it’s it’s I I noticed yesterday was a perfect example that um uh the church where where we attend daily mass um we’re not members of it but we go there it’s it’s close by it’s a very very poor very very poor Church um and um and so a big project lately has been Gathering things from my mother’s um house and taking them to thewarehouse for the church and they had their fall festivals that we donated tons and tons of stuff um mostly shoes yeah my mother was like AEL Dem Marcos um in her shoe collection anyway um so that was that was all weekend and then yesterday um an acquaintance of mine who’s an art a local artist was having an openhouse at his Studio from 12:00 to 8: and and then this it’s called the Lemon Festival because it’s in Lemon Grove I think your sister lives in Lemon Grove Heidi if I recall um so I had a horrible day of fomobecause I was worried that I didn’t know what was happening hour by hour at these two events and both of them were open events you know one was a you know like a carnival basically the one at the church where it’s not like there there there wasn’t any like schedule of performances or anything that I was going to miss but I got obsessive about um missing you know what if I miss the results of the lemon baking contest and then I can’t try the winning cake which I did I actually like calculated so here it isum this is the W the winning cake um so I I bought some of that and then I had to leave it with the lady in the refrigerator cuz I had to rush downtown cuz I was scared I was going to miss the most important part of the artist’s openhouse which again was an open house so people drifting in and out I didn’t know anyone except for the artist himself who was there from 12 to 8 so what was I worried about the art wasn’t going anywhere anyway that’s just an illustration of like yesterday was it should have been a joyful fun upbeatkind of a day and we’ve had so much drama and stress and Agony lately that I should have looked forward to it but instead I was even the night before I was in a panic like how are we going to coordinate this so we get the right window of time for each of these events which are meaningless event I mean not meaningless but I mean it’s not like I had a lecture to go to or a performance or something and so anyway that’s my example of pH modes it’s very pathetic so my question is this formal has it todo with loneliness the psychologist or Gina I think I think that if you think back to like a childhood thing about even just choosing teams for a basketball um who gets picked first who gets picked last you know those things started very early or if you had a caky school and you know were you on were you on the cool kids side or are you on the sort of well not fully accepted but tolerated side and so I think those things start fairly early so whenever I’ve done my uh you know what is your profile you do tons of these personalitytests when you go to work for people what always shows up for for me is the importance of relationships to me and the importance of relationships means that every time I encounter a group I want to be accepted and I want to feel belonging but normally that translates into me caring more about the relationship than the people I’m with so I attribute more value to it than than they do so uh one of the things i’ and particularly as a consultant where you’re coming into people’s teams and into their work environment and it’s notpermanent but you know I don’t have well in my work environment I have to create those relationships on on the Fly and so I want to be friends after the contract you know I want to still be there but then I find well I don’t really have that time and so what becomes lonely is when you don’t have as you I think you alluded to earlier Christine like you need someone to to connect with when you’re having those feelings and and if you have someone to connect with on a super happy day or a super sad day justsomebody who will take the time to listen and be with you I think that makes a difference between loneliness and being alone which I agree with um mon those are can be very different feelings I I don’t mind being alone but I don’t want to feel lonely that’s my view yeah thank you yeah I uh I remember growing up I was I was the oldest of four and the oldest of 30 cousins and um there was a loneliness in not being with people who were at my level uh you know and because of age um uh I found that when I wanted to talkabout something that was really bothering me or something new I was trying or something I felt anxious about um that I couldn’t turn to my siblings because they hadn’t been through it yet and I couldn’t turn to my cousins because they hadn’t been through it yet and yet when I when I sought out the the adults they didn’t have time or they didn’t have the ability to just sit down and listen except for my mother she was a fabulous listener she just was too busy to do it so there was a kind of loneliness there I did I didn’t noticeit I just thought well that’s life you know that’s that’s what it is or I would be with my younger sisters and they would be chattering away and fighting and doing all the stuff it was just noise it was just noise noise and I just wanted to get away from it so it was like back and forth between that but I didn’t realize until the first time I was in therapy and I was already almost 30 years old that someone could really listen to you and reflect back what you’re saying and it was like oh people could do thatpeople do that you know it was like a big Revelation so is it any wonder I became a psychologist eventually so but but I carried a piece of that loneliness with me I think throughout my life um and then when my marriage broke up um and a lot of that was because we really couldn’t communicate I mean he really couldn’t he really couldn’t get to what he was feeling or put it put them into words so it was a history and um not two months after we broke up um the pandemic started and oddly the pandemic was a relief becauseI don’t know if you’ve experienced this but when I am grieving a loss I want the world to stop and then it did so it was an OD pocket I slipped into there um which helped me personally uh until it got to be the third year you know then it really got to be too much so yeah so I’ve had an interesting relationship with feeling lonely wanting to be alone and just feeling like I didn’t know who to turn to to um you know talk about what I really needed to talk about and as a result I didn’t learn to talk about someof these feelings until much later in my life I I just didn’t know how because people didn’t in those days you know so yeah it’s been it’s been interesting and of course fomo was part of that I mean there was definitely because then other people oh they seem to be having a great time and why can’t I get into this frame of mind it was more like that you know fear of missing out on the feeling you get when you’re doing things with other people so there was that piece of it [Music] too so as you were talking I I was theyoungest in my family youngest of the cousins youngest of my siblings and so my fomo arose because I saw my brother and sister who were closer in age so they got to do a lot of things at the same time because developmentally it it fit and I was too much younger to participate so you know they were having parties and sleepovers and this thing and that thing going to dances or whatever they were doing in their lives and I was like whoa I want to do that so I wanted experiences but I also wanted um as you were talking line I wasthinking you know maybe I was just so dependent on the external world to get my pleasure and happiness like I loneliness maybe is not only about a connection with people and relating but also to what extent do you need external forces whether they be people or situations to generate your own pleasure and joy and happiness so I think that can be also a component of loneliness can we be by ourselves and still feel um generate our own joy and that’s I don’t know that’s a skill it’s not that easy to do it’s a skill well I was an onlychild so I had all my books as friends and uh yeah that makes a difference I guess yeah for me is for instance it would never come into my mind to to travel alone because I need somebody to talk about what what’s what I feel what I’m what I’m seeing what I’m discovering for instance when I went now it’s five years ago to South Africa to the conference I knew there were people I know already and we went uh on the on the tour through South Africa and so that was possible for me but I probably wouldn’thave gone there without having known anybody of of these people it’s it’s um I’m not very how do you say in in traveling because I just can’t uh and that is also good because it’s meeting my my sedentary life and my enjoyment of the changes in nature and so on I’m not very excited about traveling but I’m I’m missing out on many many things for sure but this is not that’s not the point the point for me I want to to connect with people and to share and um I don’t feel lonely when I have at least one person as I had for instancewith Mark uh where we were very much together the I always had relationship with only one person men or women I mean friends you know well mostly one person at a time and I see the danger for symbiosis in this case so uh I’m not yet quite sure if loneliness and symbiosis are the choices or if there is a way of deeply connecting with uh or feeling not lonely with people who you are not having this complete relationship I mean it’s much better now I’m I’m very much more able to to be with people just you knowwithout deep conversations and so on but up to let’s say 10 years ago and I I I must say that the therapy things and the the the courses and coaching courses and everything it really helped without that I probably would be closed egg so thank you to the psychologists that you’re doing your work yeah I agree completely I but I just wanted to add my mother um who was who could be quite nasty um she used to say you know psychology is is because she had she had millions of friends and it was interesting because she alwayssaid friends are good for nothing because I would talk about friends as people who will come to your Aid if you’re in trouble Who Will Comfort you and sorrow you know real Companions and my mother said oh that’s nonsense she would just blow it off and she said friends are good for nothing and sure enough when she got sick there was nobody there nobody there to help her no one to take her to the doctor no one to take her shopping or bring her food when she got so sick she couldn’t leave the house umand I thought how ironic you know she was right because I never anticipated that she was always surrounded by friends and people calling she was on the phone all day long and the other thing um that she said that I that this makes me think of is she said you know the only way to really share your troubles with someone is to pay them she said you have to pay someone to listen to you and she said that’s how we got psychology and therapy and counseling and all these careers she said it’s a sign of the modern worldthere was no such thing 100 years ago well or whatever whatever before Frey um she said that’s the sign that you know our culture has changed our society has changed and she always maintained that and um and she only once she agreed to go with me to a like a family therapy session and at the end she said like a real narcissist she said I think he really liked me don’t you and she said and I think he liked me better than you don’t you think and I thought okay I W this really oh dear narcissists so that’s the story of mymother you know I don’t know if you guys participate much in in podcasts or blogs or something thing um I I’m not doing that for no particular reason other than I i’ read books instead of listening to podcasts but and I don’t have anything I want to blog about that I have such strong opinions I feel like putting it out there into the world for everybody to see but obviously a lot of people especially since the pandemic it has just become a a part of everybody’s daily life and I do think they usepodcasts to feel a connection because you can select what you want to listen to obviously that’s going to make you feel like it’s your thing and uh Tom is always blogging about politics and integral and other things and I think he feels a sense of he does have a sense of connection um and it’s grown his connection with a lot of people through the internet uh but I don’t I don’t know I don’t enjoy that so much some people do um and I do think it’s become so prevalent as a way of feeling connectedbecause we’re not doing it as much in person interesting point Sorry I think it’s what’s interesting is that um I certainly appreciated uh exploring relationships on uh the internet um but in some ways it it’s not as deep or is not always as deep as it could be if you were actually sitting with someone and actually being very Mindful and truly listening and I think you know like one of the things that was was told to me about the difference between Canadian and urban European culture is if a Canadian says how are you doing you goI’m fine and you might not be fine but nobody ever takes it past on fine whereas my understanding is as in some European cultures if you say how are you you actually tell people how you are you sit down and you listen and you take whatever time it is and maybe that’s a a fantasy that was created but um I found that um actually giving people that time and being present for people took a little bit of discipline on my part to actually do that and and I think that’s when you can really have that sense thatyou know your loneliness can it takes away the loneliness if you can feel that a true connection versus a superficial connection yeah that’s true that uh you can say uh what you you you are not obliged to say oh I’m fine you can say oh but today I’m feeling a little bit blah blah blah you know that’s um that’s true so Heidi is has it been your experience since you are doing a lot of things and I I believe Mona is also on the internet you have salons to go to and various groups that you’re interacting with on a regular basis youknow like this one every two weeks and you’ve got others has that how does that fit for you in terms of improving any sense of loneliness or your connectedness for me it is important to to have the recurring uh uh meetings and have know the people better and better and on the internet normally I succeed to have deeper conversations than in normal life in normal life it’s about cooking now the pens are mature do you want some pens and things like that you know or bit small talk and at least the people here around it’s not that you canyou can scratch the surface a little bit but you cannot go deeper because you don’t know how people would take when you say what you what you think yeah about certain topics if it’s political or whatever so more cautious well in in a group like ours we have this silent agreement that everybody can say what they want to say you know and even if you I’m not agreeing with you or not with you in certain topics but that doesn’t matter you know and you’re not agreeing with what I say uh but this is this is not umtouching the relationship we are creating it’s a a free uh expression of what we think in the moment or what we feel in the moment and this is not necessarily possible with with the people I have around not even with my family even less probably I see them very little but on the internet I really feel feel much connection and some of the people I know in person some I don’t but it doesn’t seem to make a big difference and the recurrence is important even the the Tuesday group of German women you know and we everyTuesday and every Sunday we meet and um not they’re different not all the in the same they are different people some times on Sunday on Tuesday but this recurrence and this meeting that’s it’s deepening deepening the connection and for me it’s vital because otherwise I would be really lonely so I’m not lonely I’m alone of some of the time most of the time but not lonely thanks to the Internet thanks to zoom well it helps if you know someone personally and then you can meet on Zoom this makes a lot of a difference becauseuh some of the integral people I know most of them I know personally and when we meet on Zoom it’s different because uh yeah when we when you sit together a conversation can go much deeper and deeper and of course it takes more than an hour and usually when you you sit together and you eat something and you talk so it you can sit for 4 hours and it doesn’t seem but on the other hand as we did last on Friday everybody was sort of the next day rather tired so it really was a challenge to go in person deeper anddeeper but none of us would miss it so it it was really a new way of meeting some and life and that’s yeah we’ll see if we will keep that up and if we can stand it we’ll see yeah but it’s not someone who you are meeting I can meet here someone but you are meeting people with a certain integral people yeah developmental evolutionary State stage uh and this is that makes the difference and not so much in like life or or or Zoom for me and all of us are read people who read we were talking about it andeveryone was saying yeah well I have thousands of books in my library and so we are people really who read uh and not just read something but exchange with the author our ideas and that helps also yeah well um looking forward in two weeks all the elections our elections will be passed and we’ll just get interested in the USA elections and yeah I’m my daughters are American and one has registered uh so the older one has registered but the younger one yeah it doesn’t matter anyway so they are alsointerested in B going on in the states they have double citizenship so they can vote there too and they have to pay both taxes twice the taxes yeah probably but when you play pay as much taxes as you do in Austria there’s much left to pay in other countryes a lot of taxes in Austria we do definitely yeah but as soon do you know what state they would be voting in I mean not physically but what state they’re connected to uh New Jersey New Jersey okay I believe yeah that’s where we lived when they were born so in NewJersey so how do we close this loneliness um conversation is anybody lonely of you or only alone or both you have to go you are not lonely he is in thousands of yeah I think uh I think what I’d like to do is just Express the appreciation for this time together and for bringing us together and um um you know how our our relationship did start online and uh I feel close to you and so I do believe that’s possible but I think maybe we can just close it and gratitude for the appre appreciation that we cancome together like this that’s right nice nice everybody be well see you again in two weeks yeah okay okay and I went to to say I except of lorine I have seen everybody of you and I don’t see much difference um only lorine I have seen less so I know less of her but I think it’s more or less the same Al Gina I knew her before online for a while and then she came over and it’s like you know normal and I love that you mean you want me to visit you yeah sure in Italy oh that would be so that’ll be so of sleepinghomeless go that’s right I’ll be homeless anyway yeah do when you have sold your house take take some time and come and see me well thank you I will I will think long and hard about that okay see you in two weeks and I hope we see you in in with the camera then next time okay yeah I will do my best I’ll figure it thanks take care nice to meet you bye bye bye bye
OUR PRESENT TEAM
Gina Donaldson on how to meet ageing
CONVERSATIONS THAT MATTER
How to best meet the ageing process – a conversation with Gina Donaldson
Heidi writes
For many people it is difficult to find sense in their lives when they retire and their professional life comes to an end. When they were identified with their work they might find it difficult to find a good reason to get up in the morning and quite a few people die a few years after retirement.
This is not "normal", but we have many ways of feeling "useful" in later years. Taking care for others, grandchildren or alike, devloping a hobby like learning an instrument or starting to paint. At the bottom of all it is LEARNING which saves us from a boring emptiness and opens new horizons, free from the need to respond to the dictates of the clock or other people.
A conversation recorded in August 2024
Summary
Gina Donaldson discusses her journey into studying aging, emphasizing the importance of community engagement and personal purpose in later life.
Highlights
- 🌍 Gina Donaldson is navigating personal passage planning, focusing on older adults.
- 📚 She is pursuing a program in Social Dimensions of Health at a local university.
- 🤝 Community engagement is vital for combating loneliness in older adults.
- 🎨 Learning new skills, like drawing or music, can enhance quality of life.
- 💬 Conversations about purpose in later life are often overlooked.
- 🧠 Neuroplasticity allows older adults to learn and grow at any age.
- 🌟 Finding joy and purpose is essential for mental health in retirement.
Key Insights
- 🧓 Redefining Aging: Aging should be viewed as an opportunity for growth, not decline. This perspective encourages older adults to explore new interests and learn continuously.
- 🏡 Community Matters: Creating supportive environments in assisted living can enhance the quality of life for older adults, promoting engagement instead of isolation.
- 🎓 Lifelong Learning: Embracing education and new experiences fosters social connections and mental well-being, reinforcing that it’s never too late to start something new.
- 💪 Empowerment Through Choice: Encouraging older adults to take charge of their happiness can lead to richer, more fulfilling lives, moving away from passive acceptance of circumstances.
- 🤗 The Impact of Social Interaction: Engaging with others, whether through volunteering or shared interests, significantly contributes to emotional health and combats loneliness.
- 🔄 The Importance of Perspective: Changing how society views older adults can lead to more opportunities for involvement and personal fulfillment in later life.
- 🌈 Finding Meaning: Developing a sense of purpose after retirement is crucial; it can be as simple as engaging in hobbies or community activities, leading to a more vibrant life.
About Gina Donaldson
RESOURCES
VISIT OUR OTHER WEBPAGES
Pruning of life
Pruning of life – removing oneself from the battlefield
Heidi writes
What will be when I leave my work and enter retirement? This question of Lorraine brought the women of Women Matters into a deep reflexion about getting older and how to meet this last stage of life. Pretending to be young and active like before? Or letting go completely and giving in to the aging process by losing all life energy? Is there something in between? Or is there something even different, a special task for older people?
The book „falling upward“ by Richard Rohr was mentioned. Hannelie read a lovely excerpt from the book of Zsusanna Budapest „Summoning the Fates – A General Woman’s Guide to Destiny and Sacred“.
It was a very inspiring meeting with which we continued this sort of deep exploration after a period of meetings not published which seemed to be more private conversations of only 2 or 3 members at a time. This time with 6 participants brought forth again the quality of our meetings of talking about the important topics of being alive.
The conversations took place in March, 2024
OUR PRESENT TEAM
Schatten und Licht
DIE GESPRÄCHE DER FRAUEN AM VIRTUELLEN BRUNNEN
Schatten, Licht und der Lebensweg
Wir sitzen am Brunnen und sprechen über Schattenarbeit, Erleichtungsarbeit und unser Leben
In der integralen Community wird ja immer wieder die Bedeutung von “Schattenarbeit” betont. “Erleuchtungsarbeit” ist ja sowieso selbstverständlich in spirituellen Kreisen. Jahrzehnte lang haben wir das brav gemacht, aber jetzt haben wir keine Lust mehr dazu. Das sagen die Frauen am virtuellen Brunnen fast einstimmig.
Ja, es ist wichtig, sich selber kennenzulernen, “wie man so tickt” und wie weit man sich auf sich selber verlassen kann. Aber irgendwann ist es genug mit der alten Leier.
Es geht ja eigentlich wirklich um den Lebensweg, wie kommen wir durchs Leben, wie entwickeln wir uns und wie viel Ballast können wir hinter uns lassen. Da gibt es andere Methoden, die es jetzt vielleicht auszuprobieren gilt. Da ist Innerwise, was Anna-Lisa praktiziert und im Gespräch kurz erleutert wird. Ich, Heidi, berichte kurz über die Erfahrung einer Sitzung mit Anna-Lisa: es war spannend. (Hier ein Interview mit Anna-Lisa)
Wir sprechen über unseren Lebensweg, was durch das Bild mit dem Schaf, von Anna Hauser gemalt, inspiriert ist. Da gibt es viel zu berichten von den 5 Teilnehmerinnen. Unterschiedliche Geschichten, unterschiedliche wege, alle gekennzeichnet durch die Neugier, das Lernenwollen und Erfahernwollen, und durch den Mut, dies auch zu tun, immer und immer wieder.
Wenn Dir das Bild vom Schaf gefällt, dann kannnst Du Dir eine Episode der Frauen am Brunnen anschauen, die wir ganz den Bildern mit den Schafen von Anna gewidmet haben. LINK
Das live Gespräch fand am 26.1.2024 statt
Wenn Du bei diesen Gesprächen teilhaben willst, melde Dich bitte!
Letting go
Letting go – of what and why?
Heidi writes
Letting go – of what and why?
This is a timely topic as we are coming near to the end of the year. And, yes, we are getting older and how will we handle the stuff which we have accumulated during life? Shall we leave it as a burden to the next generation who needs to decide what to keep and what to through away?
How would they feel to throw away stuff of which they know that it was dear to you? What is hindering us, to throw it away right now or to give it away?
And on the non-material plain: How can we let go of our old believe system. especially when it is outdated and hindering us to live fully? What happens when we realise that the world is actually much different from what we believed it to be for decades? What comes up when we realise that we have been betrayed and abused while living in the illusion of being cared for and free in the places and statess where we live?
So many deep questions and a honest sharing howw we dealt – and still are dealing – with them in our lives and our countries.
An important insight for me: Hannelie was grown in South Africa where, from childhood on, she was diffident with the system. We others, having grown up in Europe and the US, for a long time had no reason to mistrust our system and the goodness of our society’ structure. So the awakening process to reality is painful. This explains to me why so many people cling to their illusions and are ignoring reality which makes them unable to learn from the past and to be alert when history is repeating itself in front of their eyes.
The conversations took place in December, 2023
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