Coming together

### Summary
The video transcript captures a rich, heartfelt group conversation among women from various countries, reconnecting after an Easter break in April 2026. The discussion is centered around personal updates, emotional experiences, and profound reflections on life changes, relationships, and coping with challenges. Participants share about family developments such as children spreading their wings, caregiving journeys, and the complexities of aging and moving. The group explores emotional themes including helplessness, anxiety, and grief, while drawing on therapeutic and spiritual practices, such as mindfulness, breathing techniques, and Buddhist equanimity, to manage emotional triggers. They also discuss the challenges younger generations face in a rapidly changing world and the importance of compassionate, supportive spaces for healing and growth. The conversation highlights the strength of connection despite geographic distance and the power of collective wisdom in navigating life’s transitions, relationships, and inner emotional landscapes.

### Highlights
– 🌍 Women from multiple continents reconnect, sharing life updates and reflections.
– 🌷 Personal stories of parenting, caregiving, and managing major life transitions like moving and marriage.
– 💡 Insightful discussion on managing emotional triggers with mindfulness and somatic awareness.
– 🧘‍♀️ Exploration of Buddhist equanimity and the balance between detachment and engagement in life.
– 💔 Shared experiences of grief, loss, and acts of kindness during difficult times.
– 🌱 Concern and hope for younger generations facing global uncertainty, emphasizing compassionate support.
– 🤝 Emphasis on deep listening, clear communication, and creating safe spaces for emotional expression.

### Key Insights
– 🌐 **Global Connection as a Source of Strength:** Despite physical distances spanning continents—from South Africa to Canada to Europe—the group demonstrates how technology and intentional gathering foster a sense of community and mutual support. This connectivity serves as a vital resource for sharing experiences, wisdom, and encouragement during life’s challenges. The diversity of perspectives enriches the dialogue and reflects a universal human experience of change and resilience.

– 🌸 **Life Transitions Are Multi-Dimensional and Emotional:** Participants describe significant life events such as children leaving home, caregiving for aging or ill spouses, and relocating after decades in one place. These transitions involve practical, logistical challenges intertwined with deep emotional shifts including grief, anxiety, and hope. The conversations reveal how these changes can trigger old patterns and demand new relational dynamics, requiring conscious effort and communication to navigate successfully.

– 🧠 **Mindfulness and Somatic Awareness as Tools for Emotional Regulation:** Several speakers emphasize the importance of slowing down reactions to emotional triggers by focusing on breath and bodily sensations, echoing principles from Dialectical Behavioral Therapy (DBT). The practice of taking deliberate, deep breaths and observing physical responses helps create space to respond thoughtfully rather than react impulsively. This somatic approach supports emotional resilience and clearer interpersonal communication.

– 🧘 **Buddhist Equanimity and the Paradox of Engagement:** The group explores the tension between cultivating equanimity—observing experiences without attachment—and the necessity of active participation in life. They discuss how equanimity can sometimes verge on dissociation if misunderstood, and emphasize that true balance involves fully experiencing emotions without judgment while continuing to engage meaningfully with the world. This paradox highlights the complexity of emotional wellness and spiritual growth.

– 🤗 **Grief and Compassion as Shared Human Experiences:** Several members share recent losses and the deep emotional impact of mourning, illustrating how grief connects and grounds the group. The discussions uncover a sacred dimension to supporting one another through presence and empathy, often without needing words. This compassionate presence underscores the importance of holding space for vulnerability in communal relationships.

– 🌍 **Supporting Younger Generations Amid Global Uncertainty:** The conversation acknowledges the intense challenges faced by younger people today—climate crises, social upheaval, and pervasive anxiety about the future. Participants reflect on ways to support youth by creating safe, encouraging environments that honor their needs and perspectives without imposing assumptions. The emphasis on asking “How do you want to be helped?” respects autonomy and invites authentic connection.

– 💬 **Communication as a Practice and Relationship Builder:** Clear, intentional communication emerges as a key theme in sustaining long-term relationships, especially when patterns and assumptions of past dynamics no longer serve. The group discusses strategies such as asking direct questions about feelings and needs, practicing active listening without interruption, and offering specific forms of support. This practice fosters clarity, reduces misunderstandings, and nurtures relational growth and intimacy.

### Extended Analysis

The transcript presents a deeply layered conversation that blends practical life updates with emotional and philosophical reflections. The initial check-ins reveal personal developments such as a daughter becoming an air traffic controller, a husband’s rehabilitation, and preparations for marriage—all markers of significant life transitions that ripple through family and self-identity. These stories set a foundation for exploring broader emotional themes.

Helplessness and anxiety surface repeatedly, especially in relation to external factors like technology failures, political divides within families, and health challenges. One participant’s experience of technological breakdown leads to a metaphorical reflection on human dependence and vulnerability. Another’s struggles with family political differences highlight the emotional toll of social fragmentation. Recognizing these feelings without judgment, and allowing space for them, is presented as a vital step toward healing.

Several voices introduce mindfulness and somatic practices as strategies to create emotional space and reduce reactivity. The recommendation to breathe deeply three times and observe bodily sensations without immediate reaction draws on DBT techniques and underscores the mind-body connection in emotional regulation. This approach is complemented by the discussion of Buddhist equanimity, which encourages participants to observe feelings—pleasant, unpleasant, or neutral—without attachment. However, the group also cautions against equanimity turning into dissociation, emphasizing the need for full engagement with life’s ups and downs.

Grief and compassion weave through the dialogue, particularly as members share losses of friends and loved ones. The sacredness of presence—simply being with someone in their suffering without needing to fix or explain—is highlighted as a profound form of support. This echoes relational and spiritual understandings of healing, where connection itself is transformative.

The group turns its attention to younger generations, acknowledging the overwhelming pressures they face. The conversation advocates for humility and openness in offering support, stressing that assumptions about what youth need can be misguided. Instead, asking directly and offering concrete forms of help—whether listening, problem-solving, or practical aid—respects autonomy and fosters empowerment.

Finally, the theme of communication runs throughout the discussion. Participants share how long-term relationships require ongoing effort to reshape interaction patterns, clarify needs, and deepen understanding. Asking clear questions about feelings rather than relying on assumptions, practicing deep listening, and articulating support offers are presented as essential skills for relational health.

Overall, the transcript offers a rich tapestry of wisdom on navigating life’s complexities with grace, presence, and mutual care. The interplay of personal stories, therapeutic insights, spiritual reflections, and communal support paints a nuanced picture of resilience and transformation.

00:00:02
Women matters again. We meet after the Easter break. Let’s say we are almost at the end of April 2026. And again, several continents are and countries united. We are no only Christine and Victoria. You are in the same in the same country. Then Hani in South Africa, Gatra in Germany, me in Italy, Gina in Canada. So I find that after all these years, I find it absolutely amazing that we can connect in this way over these huge distances. So as always, a short checkin. Who wants to start? >> I don’t mind. I’ll start because I’m I’m

00:00:51
actually going to be heading to Vancouver in a few minutes. I just wanted to spend a few minutes with you. >> Okay. >> Um but I I still am a little bit on the packing side. It was a bit of a busy day. Great. Here in V Victoria, sunny. Uh school’s going well. Getting lots of interviews done. Absolutely loving interviewing my older adults. Uh and their fascinating lives. It’s been so enriching. And uh the garden is uh still in bloom because we had enough cold weather that all our blooming trees held

00:01:19
on to their blooms. But the tulips are up. and I will leave around 9:30 because we have to jump to catch a fairy. But nice to see you all. Um I’ll I’ll go next. This is Christine in Carlsbad, California. Um spring arrived early. Everything’s blooming about a month ahead of schedule and uh I have so many winter clothes that I never got to wear my sweaters uh that I look forward to wearing for a change of pace, but uh yeah, they uh they weren’t needed. It was been very warm. Um uh about 10 days ago, um took a road

00:02:08
trip with my daughter Alexis. Uh I think I might have mentioned this. She is going to become an air traffic controller uh for the FAA, which is our federal aviation organization. And uh yeah, so she had to go to Oklahoma City. So she and I drove 3 days to get there. It’s halfway across the country. Um so it took a 3-day trip to get her there and help settle her in. Uh she’s 28, so it definitely is a good thing for her to be spreading her wings and doing something different. Um yeah, so all in all, the trip was very good.

00:02:49
She and I got along great and I think she I I hope she would interpret it the same way. Um yeah, but we had a good time and of course now Tom and I are adjusting to uh not having her around. um you know just little things and just missing her and then just little things you expect her to uh to be there or I think of her. Oh, I’ve got to save this for her and I realize, oh, I don’t have to save her for her. >> Um that kind of stuff. So, it it’s an adjustment. Um yeah, so and other than

00:03:24
that, everything is pretty much okay. And that’s about it for me. Go ahead, Annie. >> Who decides of you? >> You can go get >> uh Easter before Easter. Yeah. So we had a wonderful Easter Easter days to with our two younger girls and their families and it was really nice and yeah it’s just they are three and a half the the older ones and uh one um almost two the youngest. And and this is just just amazing these little creatures. Yeah. And my husband has been in rehab till tomorrow,

00:04:44
so I’m happy to have him back. And he he got some good good support for his frozen shoulders and the the lymphoma. And um yeah, >> put the books outside the door. Okay. >> Good uh consulting and and I’ve been like, look here, I have a list and it’s almost done. So, so I was really like, yeah, sending an invoice, doing the laundry, whatever. Um and and that was really really great. And I was um Saturday I was invited uh like they have a seminar and I was invited to spend some time there as a guest

00:05:40
and they talked about a se another um workshop seminar going for one day and it’s called I don’t know exactly but um like it’s about projects a bite at a time. So, so when you have a big project and think you never get it done, then you go there. It’s just €150. So, um, so I’m thinking about this because when I’m looking at our house and we have to move out because when the old lady who is 90 now is going to die, then our land lady will sell the house. So, it’s not acute, but yeah, we have to

00:06:37
think about it. And I thought maybe I’m going to do when you’re talking about life projects, uh, Heidi, I thought that’s a that’s really a life project. Like what do I want to take with me in a new house, flat, whatever, and what do I want to leave behind and then find somebody who’s taking care of that. So um yeah to to make life decisions like getting married or or moving or yeah and moving after 28 years >> with five people and the girls have left quite a bit and yeah so

00:07:32
that’s Yeah. >> Do you do you feel like your husband will assist you in any way with either the decisions or the actual logistics of it or or not? >> Yeah, as far as he can. I mean, he cannot move his arms up and so he’s like reduced. But yes, but I thought because I’ve already thought about it, but then okay, if they have a method of doing this in a way that like helps my brain change, my mind, my attitude change. I would love that. Hi, Lauren. Yeah. So, so I I’m looking forward to to

00:08:21
that Saturday to just get started and get another mindset and oh my god, I’ve never I’m never going to do it. So, Lorraine can relate to the downsizing and moving. So, I don’t know if she’ll have any two cents to put in about that. >> Yeah. And we are planning uh my 70th birthday is coming in May and my daughters have invited us to to um Horus farm somewhere where all the kids my siblings with their kids and my kids with the with our so everybody’s come I don’t know how many people will be there

00:09:06
but um this is getting closer too. >> So, Lorine, nice that you are here, but Hani was first and then we come up to you. Okay. Thank you, ladies. Thank you, Christine. My daughter is also spreading her wings a bit and it’s also for me very interesting to also just set her free, you know, that she can wherever she goes. It’s wonderful. Yeah. I’m just in a state of actually awe of having had so many acts of kindness the past few weeks that I’m still trying to process that and to

00:09:47
receive it in a state of grace. Um now it’s just beautiful. This morning I went down here. It’s raining the last few days and I went down. I had to go to a shopping mall. It’s about 50 minutes walk which I love. And I looked at the weather predictions and it said no, there will be no rain. And just as I left, a huge a huge storm comes up and like I’m like a little bit already on my way. I’m like about kilometer away and a kind lady stops next to me and she gives me a lift. But it’s there were so many

00:10:29
synchronicities the last few weeks. It’s just wonderful. um which I’m truly grateful for. And I know Mona is also going through um perhaps a time of of mourning. Three of her dear friends passed and one of my friends passed of brain cancer 10 days ago and when I just connected to Mona few days back, it was just interesting that she had some something similar happening in her life. So we I could connect with her telepathically just to support her and also honoring my own feelings and emotions about although I don’t want her

00:11:10
to suffer and I was also deeply involved in speaking to her brother the evening before to ask if he’s willing to let her go. That was quite emotional but also deeply sacred which I’m grateful for. Otherwise I’m good. Can’t complain. And I’ll pass to you Lorraine. >> I forgot one one thing. Um I’m in or we are invited from the appreciative inquiry Europe community to South Africa to Cape Town uh by one of our colleagues there who who joined the European so he’s in the

00:11:51
European um same time the soand so they are planning on January to to be there like mid January and I’m yeah thinking of that. So, I just wanted to let you know. Well, sorry about my lateness this morning. I guess Christine conveyed to you I was having internet problems and um and that was very interesting because I watched myself sort of devolve into this state of utter helplessness. you know, I unplugged this and replug that and you know, just just and my phone and my computer went out at the

00:12:39
same time and I couldn’t figure it out and it was you know eyeopening to see how dependent I am on all of that and I guess we all are to some extent. Uh but uh yeah, but sort of helplessness was the was the theme that got started in a call with my sisters yesterday. And I’ve got one sister who whose political views are so far from my own and who talks like she’s so utterly unhappy. I had that same feeling of helplessness. You know, confrontation isn’t going to work. uh and I so I just felt totally

00:13:24
passive and utterly helpless. So that’s my theme of the of the week. Just trying to in a way uh just trying to not run from these feelings and kind of live with them for a little bit and see what they are and you know what it’s all about. Is this a problem with me with my culture? Is it a problem at all or is it just the complexity of things? So, that’s kind of where I’m at. I’m sorry I missed some of your catchups. >> Yeah, thank you. I don’t know if Victoria is ready to speak. Otherwise, I

00:14:02
try. Um, we were talking about maybe life projects as helplessness and wanting to follow their own emotions and look what is coming out and so on is also sort of a life project. And to be happy to be alone uh and I mean let children go is also >> life watching. I find it amazing that we more or less always come back to the same sort of of of topic in the last few times you know either it was aging or it was change and and and and transformation or something like that. As for me, I’m how can you say anxious anxious and and

00:14:50
excited at the same time and calmer than uh I was before. Uh as you know we plan to marry and we will do it now in the 4th of uh June in Denmark and then I hope that the airplanes do fly still and that we won’t all this stuff which makes the anxiousness and uh the happiness is that it seems to work out with all the bureaucracy and all the things which you have to figure out. It’s like learning something new. You know, you have to find out this, you have to do this and this and this and this and this full-time job and then

00:15:30
this strange situation. Normally, I wouldn’t think about that, you know, uh maybe we don’t arrive at the right moment there because of airplanes. So, keep your we say thumbs um that that it will all work out. And as I said before, then in the end of June, we will do here a celebration. And whoever wants to come, we might not have enough room, but it’s warm enough to sleep outside. So I don’t know who else will come from his family and from my family and so on and friends. And we’ll be happy to do a big

00:16:12
celebration and a big ceremony also. not not um church ceremony but the spiritual se ceremony by a friend of us and this is my life changed and you know I realized up so far in my life especially here in the in my house I was always doing it myself the my first partner refused to do anything so I did then the second one more or less the same and it was more or less a fight then um with Mark who you know he just let me do everything and I asked him what do you want no response so I always was uh let’s say the boss

00:17:00
you know and my ideas and I I’m used it and now yesterday I wrote a poem still two weeks and then who knows how life may go when there is a person who really will enter into with his own ideas and uh I have to let go of my habits and my usual ways of of doing and thinking and uh you know that will be another big challenge and I am really excited but also oh that will be not so easy. So this is my my check in for today and Victoria are you here? No. So let’s just go on and let’s when you want to add something to

00:17:48
what you uh said in your check in or if you want to cross refer to somebody else and so we can develop the topic. Oh here she is. Hello everybody. I’m sorry I uh I wasn’t able to come on on camera. I’ve actually been listening, but I I wasn’t able to uh actually join you till now, but I’ve heard the check-ins. Fortunately, it’s been a really long time, so I’ve missed you all, and I’m glad to hear all your news. Um, so I the my check-in basically is well, it would take too long to make a real

00:18:26
check-in. Um, just an immense amount of turmoil, some very, very serious things. Um, nothing life-threatening, but definitely threatening in every other respect. Um, and um, and I will check in on behalf of Beatatric just because I heard the theme and it’s it’s it’s kind of a what my late husband would have called a joke of the angels. Um because Beatatrice, as far as I know, at this very minute is um is in in New York where her she was storing the entire contents of her Brooklyn apartment um in the garage of

00:19:08
her uh halfb brotherther, my late husband’s son from his first marriage. Um and he’s selling his house. So he sent her an SOS and said, um you’ve got to come and get your stuff because I’m selling my house. And so she quite precipitously um had to go to New York. I haven’t heard from her yet. I don’t want to bother her cuz I’m sure it’s total chaos. Um but it’s her whole life from I think she was in New York for about four or five years. So it’s it’s probably a huge amount of stuff. Um I

00:19:40
never saw my my stepson’s um house, but it must be immense that he could even store it all these years. she had always had the idea she would move back to New York. Um but that doesn’t seem to be the case. So anyway, I’m just sharing that because uh she would have been here had she um not had this this sudden emergency. She’s coming here on Wednesday and she’ll be here I think almost two weeks. So she might be able to join our next session. Um so yeah, big times of turmoil. Um, yeah, and as I

00:20:14
said, my my turmoil is too complicated to even discuss, but I’m still here and glad to be with you all. Thanks. Yeah, so over to everybody else. Thanks. Oh, and congratulations Heidi in advance. Let’s wait when when we have done then I will say okay and when he gots gets the permission to stay in Italy that is the main reason you know we are doing all this because otherwise after 3 months out out of here so afterwards we celebrate well I’ll mention something that I’m trying to be conscious of

00:21:03
uh >> Wait a minute, Christine. I see that Gina is wanting to talk and she needs to go away. So, >> yeah, just wanted to say thank you. Thank you, Heidi, for noticing. Sorry, Christine. Um, great to see you all. Great to hear your check-ins and I’ll look forward to seeing you in two weeks. And hopefully I’ll have something fun to talk about from Vancouver. Take care. Bye. >> Bye. Bye. Um, I’m trying to be conscious uh and aware of uh slowing down my reactions. Um, and it’s mostly uh involving

00:21:40
uh Tom and having been married so long, and this is a little tip, Heidi. He and I know each other so well. we somebody says something and the other person already has a reaction before they’ve even finished saying what they’re going to say because we know where things are headed, right? We just that familiarity and um I I’m trying to slow down and say how do I want to ask myself how do I want to reply to this or do I how do I want to react? Do I maybe not even want to react? So, I’m just trying to slow it

00:22:21
down so I can be more uh conscious and intentional about how I reply because if I don’t I I tend to I I know myself well enough to know that I’m tending to um I don’t know come come across with some impatience or frustration or annoyance um or just again an assumption assuming is just as bad as any of those other things to assume that I know uh what he’s going to say or what you what it’s all about. So, I’m just trying to slow down. If you guys have any tips when somebody says something and it may

00:22:57
be a trigger or even if it’s not a trigger, again, some assumptions, how to create a little bit more space. Um, so I have a chance to decide. That’s what I’m doing. Victor Frankle, right? >> Yeah. Does everyone know Victor Frankle? >> Yeah, because that’s um I mean I mean the question is how to do it but but this is my weekly discussion with my with my therapist. Um so Christine, yeah well you have all the skills and the training and the knowledge. So if you want to a reply to that what I

00:23:44
suggest is three times breathing deeply remember to breathe in and out three times and then see how it’s and observe what is happening with the breath that would be probably how I would do it and observe also what is in in the body what is what is moving and so on without react on it just noticing put the attention on what is happening in the body and then later talk. Yeah, sure. Yeah, I have done I have done a video in German and uh the text for that it’s called triggered what to do and um so I

00:24:35
could translate the the paper for you and maybe even send you the the video so you can I mean you might not understand the explanation but you see what I do. So, um because we have yeah come up with quite a bit for like there there’s a street light model like when you’re in red it’s like on adrenaline and cannot think properly. So, how to Yeah, if you if you’re interested, I can can do that. >> Yeah, it’s not so much that I become in fight or flight or I’m overly emotional

00:25:28
about it, but it’s just I want to >> just be a little slower. >> So, I can I can choose. And I think the sematic thing may help. Um although most of what’s going on is in my head, but I can check in with my body, my gut in particular. And also just kind of breathing always helps slow things down, >> right? >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Um Christine, you know, you know what I’ve been working on the last few months. Um I’m uh I got triggered in an integral uh uh meeting and I’ve been trying to track

00:26:09
it and it was damn hard. I started with my body, you know, and I’m, you know, but now I have a lot of time to do this. This is why I was doing it because before my life was too busy to do this kind of thing. But I when I when I spent some time with it, I realized there was something in what I was hearing that felt dangerous. Now, I’m sort of going off the deep end here, you know, and that may not be anywhere near what you’re talking about, but I followed it as though this were a real thing, you know, small

00:26:47
danger. It’s not like my life is threatened, but there was something about what the instructor was saying that after I I sat with it for a while and again starting with body, but also letting feelings and memories and all of that other internal stuff rise to the surface. I discovered sort of a boundary for myself. There’s some things about integral that distress me and I gave myself a chance to create a boundary in my own mind and just say, you know, it’s okay cuz this is me and I can’t go to that place and I

00:27:30
don’t have to anymore. Part of my distress was trying to talk myself out of feeling that way because it puts me at risk for remaining in the group. uh you know and these are small things. This is not survival stuff. This is you know just subtle things. So you know there may be something about the particular way that he talks about things or presents things that might be a little irksome or that that sort of uh don’t fit with you in some way. I don’t know. I don’t know if it’s worth going down that rabbit

00:28:10
hole for you. For me, I had the time and I had the space in my life and it was interesting to follow that path. So now it’s like it’s like one of the things my triggering and I did call it triggering does for me is make me realize what my boundaries are. Not just that there’s something horrible and terrible I’m supposed to, you know, dig out of myself and fix, but that, you know, this is not a comfortable thing for me. Somehow bringing it to the surface helped me not get as reactive,

00:28:46
but I had to become aware of it. Um, one of the backdrops for me in relationships with men is we really are different. We really are different. And I, you know, I’ve had two um marriages that ended. So, you know, this is a a theme in my life and I love to get to the bottom of it. You have a very successful marriage. So, this is just a little, you know, just a little moment. So, again, you know, it was just an interesting journey for me and took me out of that mindset of of blaming myself. This is about me. this is about

00:29:29
some failing. I’m too much of this. I’m too little of that. You know, and and just, you know, well, you know what I’m saying? I can go on and on. It was almost like following your curiosity. Isn’t this curious? Huh? I wonder I wonder what this is. Interesting. I was just I just stumbled yesterday on um on a you know very famous passage from one of the Buddhist sutras um about how if you experience something pleasant, you say to yourself, “Oh, I’m experiencing something pleasant.” And

00:30:18
then if you’re experiencing something unpleasant, you say, “Oh, I’m experiencing something unpleasant.” And if you’re experiencing something neither pleasant nor unpleasant, you say, “Oh, I’m experiencing something neither pleasant nor explicit.” But it made me wonder, this is something I’ve always and and interestingly that since we have two professionals on the call um with with uh DBT, dialectical behavioral therapy, I always um have wondered because the

00:30:48
founder of that modality based a huge amount of her work on Buddhism. But I was thinking yesterday I because I literally just stumbled on this. It was in an email from some organization or something. Um, and I knew it already, but I thought um the thing about life is is to embrace it and to participate in it. And I know that my depression um is always at least temporarily ameliated by jumping into some activity and going out. Um, even if I’m exhausted physically, it’s safer for me to go out

00:31:27
and do something than to stay home and rest because I’ll just plunge into the vortex of despair. Um, so I was wondering what what you think of that like the because this this standing back and observing like Lorraine is talking about with curiosity, which is definitely like everything I’ve ever learned and heard from from my therapists over the years or whatever. Um how does it seems like a paradox? How does that fit with that jumping in? Um you know what DBT talks about participation where you you do you observe you

00:32:03
describe and then you participate and this sense of um embracing life. It seems I don’t know cuz because I feel like there’s some there’s some kind of um some kind of paradox there that I’d love to like unpack. I’ve always wondered about that because I’m very good at at jumping in with great enthusiasm and it pulls me right out of my depression and I’m just in the best of shape for a while until whatever it is is over and I have to go back back to the dailies and back to my house and back to all the

00:32:37
tasks and challenges. So, um, that’s what I’m trying to work with is balance. Like, how do I how do I have that keep that equinimity, that like Buddhist equinimity and still allow myself to enjoy life and to love it. So, I’d love to hear what all of you have to say because that’s really a struggle for me. Um, just to jump in because I’ve struggled so much with this so-called Buddhist equinimity. Um, my heritage is southern Europe. We feel, our bodies react. So, um, for me, the Buddhist equinimity can be

00:33:26
dissociation. Um I I think what I was trying to sort out for myself is not non-attachment. It’s not detachment. It’s total attachment in the sense of my body is reacting, my stomach is tensing, my jaw is tensing. Um, and sort of using the Buddhist strategy of sitting with that, staying with that until I, you know, like not running from it. The fight or flight or the freeze is running from the the negative feeling. You know, it’s almost like we’re convinced that what’s in the core of us

00:34:10
is terrible. It’s and that’s so not fair to us. It’s not terrible. It’s just information and the more sensitive you are as a person I think the more you you know respond to what happens in your life. But um so you know the the sitting with when you want to run um to not run from the feeling I mean from the feeling and and see what happens. And if it’s too terrible don’t do it alone. I mean that’s that’s where therapists can come in. But when you’ve when you’ve had trauma,

00:34:57
you know, you need a lot of support when you’re doing that sort of thing. But the core belief is when you get to the center of you, um it’s not bad at all. You aren’t a terrible person. You know, you’re just a person. Um, and relationships matter. And you’re keeping all of that inside, trying to fit into this crazy world where you’re not supposed to go nuts on the outside. You’re supposed to be calm and competitive and, you know, um, so you know, when you say that, it arouses

00:35:36
tremendous compassion in me. I think that’s another thing I found. I felt compassion for myself. You know, I’ve made so many mistakes in my life. I wish I could go back and fix them. And and those roll around in my head. It’s like, why didn’t I do this and why didn’t I do Well, I didn’t. And that’s got to be part of the evolutionary process, right? We make we’re we’re not taking risks if we don’t make mistakes. That’s how we learn, sadly. And then we blame

00:36:05
ourselves. It’s just not fair. So, I don’t know. Yeah, it’s bunch of gibberish I’m saying right now. But anyway, something might strike a chord in you. Um, >> no, it’s great. I’m not gibberish. I have posted a link because this morning I heard a a video uh talking Richard Rat exactly about this topic that it needs and he also mentioned Ken Wilbur that it means not only enlightenment and uh whatever and this calmness but it needs also uh waking up is and showing up and cleaning up and

00:36:52
being completely ly immersed in life at the same time so that you don’t have um you better shouldn’t concentrate on only one as we know from integral but on on on all these aspects and I found it very helpful what he was saying and so the idea to to enlightenment and be calm and quiet yeah it’s good but if it’s only then for me it’s a sort of spiritual bypassing I have been in courses where they were Oh, no. What are you saying, Annalie? I also resonate with Richard’s um

00:37:40
Richard is so calm, but I’ve seen him also extremely, you know, like turbulent that both sides, like you say, it’s not one or the other. is to not run away from it either, but also not to disengage. Yeah, it’s because I’m so in my body, sensing my body, although I can also spiral in my mind as well, but I’ i’m using creative thinking to get out of that spiral and possibility thinking to get out of the spiral in my mind. But when I move, I can easily connect with it and move through it. So I use

00:38:20
movement. That’s why I I need to move every day in some kind of way. Like the last few days it rained so much I couldn’t go outside. So I had to do something inside just to otherwise I get stuck even if I’m not in a state where I feel depressed on so forth. It was very difficult for me when I couldn’t move uh when I had so much trauma here in Cape Town before because I was contained in one small little space. But for me it’s movement and to so it’s it’s a both. It’s a both and for me it’s

00:38:53
not an either or and it’s just to sit with it whatever comes up and not judge it. Just allow it to go to the deepest feeling what wants to come out. I saw something this morning about difference of releasing and suppressing. So when we just suppress it and do other stuff, we still don’t get to the core of it. But whatever way we use to release to feel it, release it is where the freedom comes in which is on some because sometimes we can hold on to it because we begin to identify with it or

00:39:31
as it on a subconscious level. So we won’t allow it to disperse and to really get to the core of it. But we’re incredible beings. We have so many ways that we can actually work through it. And I totally agree with you that that we need support as well. We do need support. We don’t have to go through all these things alone. That we can, but it’s not necessary. And that’s even coming together like this is support, which I appreciate. Now I can just share what happened with my friend when I asked him about his

00:40:11
sister. And in that moment it was not about my own feelings about her. It was just to be present with him while he’s going through his feelings about it. And I just realized the wonder of having somebody that we can sometimes just sit with. They don’t even have to speak to just be present with us already helps a lot. What I want to what I want to bring into the conversation is I’m involved a lot more more with younger people these days surrounded by more because my daughter I was surrounded by a lot of younger

00:41:01
people and to see how they struggled to cope with what’s happening in the world. So it’s it that the collective has such a big impact on their personal being and I would like to hear what you say Christine and Lorine and even get Gertran and Victoria as well. How can we better support them at this moment in time? This may be controversial what I’m going to say but um you all know me and I hope love me. So he looks um just I I spent a week with Beatatrice um a few weeks ago and um so was around

00:41:46
there’s a big production going on so I was seeing the you know the the people in the ballet company and you know a lot of lot of young people in that context and a lot of um a lot of anst and a lot of worry and and um and also some of the you know the the things I’m doing online. Um it’s it’s very heartbreaking the the how much the younger generation is suffering I feel compared to us our generation because you know they you know one says they have their lives in front of them and yet it looks like

00:42:22
everything’s falling apart and everything is being destroyed and there’s no future. It’s just devastating. And um and but then uh last night I went to the um the local Catholic university because I I’m mentoring some musicians there who and they perform every Sunday night. Um not perform, it’s a it’s a it’s a Catholic mass, but it’s for the student body. It’s as opposed there’s a huge church on the campus which you know people from the community go to. It’s I mean it’s

00:42:52
immense. And this is a tiny chapel where the students have their masses um if they want to be intimate. Um or they can go the other one. Anyway, I can’t begin to tell you. Um I mean this was just purely experiential like beyond any belief I may or may not have or anybody may or may not have. It was palpable in that space this incredible joy and compassion and hope. And the priest who’s um very outspoken and he’s Irish and very fiery um talked you know he’s very very much progressive politically

00:43:30
and and socially and otherwise and he talked he brought in the issues that are facing the world right now and um but and talked about how the students you know how this is the future they need they they need to take respons start taking responsibility and you know feeding the poor visiting you know looking after the homeless less, you know, all the things that you see in the the gospels, um, visiting the sick, comforting the dying, um, very explicitly. And yet somehow the container holding this was so full of

00:44:02
hope and love and joy that it felt it felt like a privilege like like I felt I felt with these students like they were sort of being almost like a pep talk. I don’t know like like um okay you have been fortified go out and those are always the last words of the mass you know since since the beginning of the of Christianity go out misa est means go out the mass has been concluded and I thought how wonderful to reclaim that that power like um you you come here to get bread for the journey and be

00:44:38
fortified and then go out and share your joy and your of and your what you have to contribute. So anyway, I don’t mean to proitize and I definitely but but just in that when you were talking about the young people and I just had that experience last night and it it brought me to tears because I thought what a contrast >> when I had just been with this group of um you know Beatatric and her friends where they don’t um you know they’re wonderful people pursuing their careers but they’re in a crumbling world and

00:45:07
they don’t they don’t know where to hold on and anyway um it was just an interesting juosition There’s one sentence that is in the we flow um storage context that we don’t presume what people need but ask like how do you want to be helped is the main sentence in our way of coaching. So and and sometimes just let us be surprised by what they say because it might be completely different than we thought what they need. So when you talk about the younger generation, I would be even more

00:46:01
cautious to to dump my assumptions on them. But but really what what how how do you want to be helped? How how can I help you in your way of how you want to live your life? what I heard from uh Victoria and what I want to to take out and and name it clearly is um the ability which we for instance have many of us have in our age but not everybody has developed to create a space so that the the sacred let’s say can can come out. I I heard that her and I think this is how also our contribution could be to try to create

00:46:57
spaces where people feel held and feel encouraged to to to overcome the anxiety because it is an illusion to think that we can stay without fear can that we can live without fear. fear will be there but courage is to do the things which are needed or which we want to do despite of the fear and if there is an environment which is supportive I think as you said before you don’t even need to speak but uh in this case probably the words were important too and also the suggestions but to just offer this

00:47:36
to the world the the energetic environment where people can feel encouraged and I think that is I feel it like a task for me or like you know to do >> I wanted to reply to uh Honoli and I’m going to say something that you already know because I know you’re a very compassionate person so this is going to probably be your own words that you’ve said at some time to other people I think it’s helpful when you don’t when you’re sensing somebody needs support. One to start just with a statement that

00:48:16
oh, I’ve been touched by what you told me. The initial statement of just letting them know you felt a connection to to them in some way in whatever word, just one sentence, letting them know how you took that in and that it meant something to you. And then exactly what Gertrude said, ask them what they need, but I would take it one one more and and give them some concrete maybe examples. I can just listen. I can help you problem solve. I can provide um and then offer some maybe logistical support that you

00:48:53
think they might need, a ride, a meal, a prayer or whatever. Um because sometimes uh when especially like with caregivers um they don’t know what they need. You know, they really don’t know what they need. So you have to be a little bit more specific in what you really feel you could offer them because they’ll be like, you know, maybe they’ll come up with something, but often times when they’re in the middle of something, they don’t know. So you can ask them what they need and then you know maybe give

00:49:25
them some choices of what you’re able to do. But you know that you’ve you’ve done it a million times. I’m sure. I feel like this really dovetales beautifully with what Heidi said at the beginning about um how now this this looking to the future, this change of of the role that you’re in the relationship that you were as the boss and um and you you said that you even would ask Mark what you know what did he want to do or whatever and he was you know he sort of deferred back to you and um it’s that

00:50:01
it’s that that that in every relationship there’s a there’s a certain um yeah you have to read into signals because some people don’t Yeah. I I I know for especially what you were saying Christine in the caregiving situation that um when my husband was dying I I had no clue what I needed or wanted but the one thing I the one thing I could feel that I needed and wanted more than anything else was um companions on the journey. just people to be like you said Honoli just people to be there um just

00:50:36
be present and um but I couldn’t even articulate that I was just grateful when when people were there and when they weren’t I could you know I soldiered on but it was um yeah there’s there there’s a it it all feels kind of like a dance and and with each person it’s a different it’s a different uh different dynamic and it might change also So over time um so I think it it fits a lot I think to with what what you were saying Heidi about now facing this this very different relationship and how is it

00:51:12
going to evolve because we also get into patterns like like you were saying Christine at the beginning of patterns of relating to Tom because the relationship is so longstanding and so there’s certain um what do they say about the neurons that fire together wire together. The the neural pathways are very deep. I know that very well from my own experience. >> Yeah, I would. >> Yeah, I can resonate with that as well. Christine, I mean, we’re together for almost 40 years. So it’s

00:51:51
and and the effort to create myself ourselves a new um it’s worthwhile. So just three weeks apart is also kind of supportive in that. Oh that’s an idea. I can go on a weekl long vacation once a month. That is a great idea because even just taking that road trip with my daughter and I was gone for three and a half days that was like, you know, refreshing. >> You’re back. >> Yeah. >> So, I wanted to add a good thing is to have a new relationship, especially with somebody who is challenging you because

00:52:41
he doesn’t respond to your patterns. Ah, you know, and it was so disorienting at the beginning. No, but he didn’t do it as um for for on purpose. It just didn’t land with him what I was, you know, proposing out of my patterns and it was so how to say helpful and I learned a lot. Now I have to experience how it will be when we are together all the time. So the new challenges I’m really curious that’s it’s it’s and then other thing um to to figure out I’m very good in figuring out what the other

00:53:23
wants you know but I went over from the beginning in this relationship always to ask clear when uh questions and saying clearly what I see what I need what I and whatever and not this assumption oh he has understood or I have understood No, we haven’t. And so I’m always asking questions always. He’s not yet so good in it, but he’s better. And so I’m in somehow um you could say leading the relationship at least up so far. He’s getting so much better in in asking also me when when

00:54:00
I’m uh um in in different spaces, let’s say. But I have decided it’s uh it’s doesn’t it’s not important if I lose a relationship by holding back. I have to I have to have clarity and I go always right into it. And this is completely new how to create a relationship. So maybe also with older relationships it can work to to be very clear and ask what do you mean exactly and things like that and then I can give the other uh um suggestion which I I think I’ve already talked about. There

00:54:40
was a book in the 80s which is called conscious loving and there are uh Hrix Hrix gay and something Hrix Katherine Hrix and we were working through that book and then there were the questions for instance what do you feel what do you want what do you need how is the past coloring your presence what uh exper what is uh your gain when you keep stuck and things like that there were seven eight questions and we still every now and then we go through this list and uh for instance he often when I ask how

00:55:19
do you feel or what do you feel then he starts with telling stories and I said that’s not a feeling and so I sort of nail him and then he I see that he is going into himself and then after a while either comes a new story or he really goes into the into the feeling it’s also a question of habit I mean I mean of of of of learning to to to respond to questions like that if you are asked how do you feel I I often don’t know I have to let’s say to think about to feel about what I’m feeling so

00:55:56
the more we practice that I think the more it gets easy to be clear about the feeling and even if they are mixed feelings then to to to in to to to realize now I’m in anxiety now. I’m I’m overwhelmed. Now I’m ah relieved or something you know it the feelings go so quickly or so often and to be become aware of that I find it a real huge step and when you do that together it’s even it’s it’s marvelous. So for me it’s really great and that makes me hope that we can make it together because we have this

00:56:36
clarity. That was already my check out. Thank you for listening and doing this that everything comes holding the thumbs we say in German. >> I don’t know what that means. >> That means good. >> It’s f it’s fingers crossed in German. Okay, >> we we in English we say fingers crossed. Um I I I don’t mean to jump in, but I I I’m late for another meeting right now. So I’m just going to check out by saying how wonderful it is to see you all again. I’ve really missed you and um how

00:57:11
nourishing it is. It’s really it’s such a privilege really. I the wisdom in this room, Zoom room, not in this room for sure, um is just wonderful. So, um, yeah. So, I look forward to seeing you next time. I’m I’m going to dash out. I’m sorry to to miss the checkout from everybody else, but lots of love and hope to see you next time. I began to put in the chat, you know, um Tom reminded me to suggest everybody attend Icon 2026 online and it’s May 28th through the 31st this year. And if

00:57:53
you need a price reduction to attend, let me know and then I will pass that on to Tom and see if they can adjust the online price. Of course, it would be wonderful if you attend it in person, but not expecting that from uh Europeans and Africans. So, um yeah, but it’s going to be a good uh a good conference. So, if you have any interest, go to the website we are icon.org, take a look at the speakers, and if you need help with the price, let me know. >> I didn’t know anything about it.

00:58:30
So, thank you. Um yeah, I’m thinking also about two people, two books. One is in German. Um the um begin and he he says that so the answer begins with two people. It’s not what I have in my head might be true or not. But um and he says so he he um says people should listen to each other without interruption. Just Yeah. So asking question is one part but then have some time that you can just say whatever you have to say uninterrupted and the other one is listening and um yeah and he’s he has several sentences I

00:59:35
don’t know but one is I don’t so I don’t know you I I don’t have a clue clue know who you are. So, please tell me. Um, and Nancy Klene with a thinking environment or deep listening. Um, yeah. So, I don’t know the the title of her book, but Nancy Klene that came up after you said so. And I put the the translation into the chat as well. I let Google translate it. I hope the it’s readable. I didn’t check it. Yeah, it’s nice conversation. Interesting. It’s just like

01:00:33
evolving. And thank you girls or other ladies. And um yeah, I’m looking forward to my husband tomorrow. See him >> um and uh yeah, have a wonderful time and um Heidi, so as soon as you know, I I just check if it’s possible for us. So how he is and because I would love to come with him. So yeah, thank you ladies. Thank you ladies. Thank you. And I also Yeah, it’s it’s really amazing. You just enjoy every moment. Um it’s so inspirational actually. where you said you once said, “Yeah,

01:01:30
just get a new lover.” You said it a while back and I thought, “Oh, that could be nice.” Yeah. So, it’s really inspirational. Thank you. And also, everybody, this is I can feel it in myelves and I feel it in my heart. So, I really appreciate it. Thank you very much. >> So, we’ll be together on the fourth. >> Yeah. Oh, is that is that your >> your birthday? >> May 4th. >> Yeah. Is that your birthday? >> Yeah. >> Okay, that’d be good.

01:02:05
>> Do you want to come on your birthday? >> Yeah, sure. Why not? >> Okay. >> May 4th. Yeah. Okay. >> And then when’s yours, Gertrude? What day is yours? >> Uh 24th. 28th. Uhhuh. Another >> You’re a Gemini. Well, thank you ladies. This was uh great, very inspiring, lovely to be with you and to share it, you know, deeper levels than we usually do out in the world. So, I shall return to my puddle of helplessness. Thank you. >> Thank you. >> So, Christine, your check out was

01:02:49
already here. Okay. So, thank you ladies. See you. >> Thank you ladies. Bye bye. >> Bye bye. >> Bye bye.