CONVERSATIONS THAT MATTER
How to best meet the ageing process – a conversation with Gina Donaldson
Heidi writes
For many people it is difficult to find sense in their lives when they retire and their professional life comes to an end. When they were identified with their work they might find it difficult to find a good reason to get up in the morning and quite a few people die a few years after retirement.
This is not "normal", but we have many ways of feeling "useful" in later years. Taking care for others, grandchildren or alike, devloping a hobby like learning an instrument or starting to paint. At the bottom of all it is LEARNING which saves us from a boring emptiness and opens new horizons, free from the need to respond to the dictates of the clock or other people.
A conversation recorded in August 2024
Summary
Gina Donaldson discusses her journey into studying aging, emphasizing the importance of community engagement and personal purpose in later life.
Highlights
- 🌍 Gina Donaldson is navigating personal passage planning, focusing on older adults.
- 📚 She is pursuing a program in Social Dimensions of Health at a local university.
- 🤝 Community engagement is vital for combating loneliness in older adults.
- 🎨 Learning new skills, like drawing or music, can enhance quality of life.
- 💬 Conversations about purpose in later life are often overlooked.
- 🧠 Neuroplasticity allows older adults to learn and grow at any age.
- 🌟 Finding joy and purpose is essential for mental health in retirement.
Key Insights
- 🧓 Redefining Aging: Aging should be viewed as an opportunity for growth, not decline. This perspective encourages older adults to explore new interests and learn continuously.
- 🏡 Community Matters: Creating supportive environments in assisted living can enhance the quality of life for older adults, promoting engagement instead of isolation.
- 🎓 Lifelong Learning: Embracing education and new experiences fosters social connections and mental well-being, reinforcing that it’s never too late to start something new.
- 💪 Empowerment Through Choice: Encouraging older adults to take charge of their happiness can lead to richer, more fulfilling lives, moving away from passive acceptance of circumstances.
- 🤗 The Impact of Social Interaction: Engaging with others, whether through volunteering or shared interests, significantly contributes to emotional health and combats loneliness.
- 🔄 The Importance of Perspective: Changing how society views older adults can lead to more opportunities for involvement and personal fulfillment in later life.
- 🌈 Finding Meaning: Developing a sense of purpose after retirement is crucial; it can be as simple as engaging in hobbies or community activities, leading to a more vibrant life.
00:03
here we are again a long time we didn't have an interview in English and today we will have fun with Gina Donaldson and she's in America and we were together in a group Zoom group logically because we cannot go back and forth to meet but once actually she came to see me in Italy and so I wanted to invite her and ask her what has happened since and if you like to introduce yourself a little bit and see what what you're up to no okay well thanks Heidi um so just just as initial clarification hi I'm Gina Donaldson I am
00:46
the uh partner navigating officer for personal passage planning which helps uh people prepare respond and recover from Life events whether they're planned or unplanned and so uh as part of part of that work I'm on a constant journey and my journey is taking me to a new place but I would like to just clarify that although uh I do look out at the United States from my kitchen window I'm actually Canadian so I'm in Victoria Bridge Columbia at Canada uh easy to overlook that I'm still in North America
01:18
so from that a sense American uh so yeah so where where life is taking me what I what I do is I work with uh clients mostly older adult adults because they're the ones who understand that um life can throw you some interesting curves whereas sometimes other people think that those things don't happen and what's come up in post conversations uh with my clients so you know I've set them up and then I go back and see how are they doing and what's come up is that they're feeling bored and lonely and they're not sure what to do next and
02:00
because of my relationship also with a number of uh older Elder friendly Community networks in in my city here Victoria uh I become aware of the what the networks are saying and one of the things that I was asked was can you come and speak to my staff about what people should do later in life and I'm I was thinking well what makes me an expert I mean I'm just sort of starting this journey so why are you asking me and then uh much to my own surprise I was out of the blue recruited would you like
02:32
to come do a M's in Psychology which is my background and I realized that as much as I wanted to do that earlier in my life uh that this point in my life I still wanted to go back to school and learn in a very different way so I found a program at our local university called social dimensions of Health which is a inter interdisciplinary program between multiple faculties faculties you wouldn't even imagine had anything to do with aging because my interest became what is aging all about what stories have we told
03:05
ourselves are we actually making the best use out of these this gift of life particularly since if you were born in the 50s you got about 18 more years more than you planned and maybe more than your parents so what to do with this aspect of life and I realized that there didn't seem to be a lot of options and so though although I understood a lot about grief and dying I really hadn't delved into what about some of the more positive things that we could do in life and learning came up for me as one of
03:43
the ways that um we can find ourselves in a social situation again so you know it's fine for me I read books and I go online and I read editorials that's great but I'm not really being social in in that respect so it's the interaction and maybe the challenging with other people that will maybe help address this and so I had to be willing to get out of my comfort zone and go from self-learning into a more academic rigorous research oriented formal program and so I actually it was very challenging as an
04:27
older adult to do that because they want wanted uh send us two essays from your uh most recent uh courses signed by your professors saying that you make a good candidate well I haven't been in school for 20 years so I don't have those anymore tracking down five different universities of transcripts when they went oh I don't know we'll have to look way back to get those so it was kind of it was kind of interesting but I was I think I was really blessed uh in that first of all I a supportive spouse which is helpful uh
05:03
and I encountered a psychology Prof who's a friend who said you need to do this program and then I had to go find two people to be my supervisors and the two people I found were perfect so one fellow uh he comes from uh more of a public policy background but he did his Masters later in life and his PhD when he's 55 oh so I have somebody who can actually understand that it's okay to learn later in life and my other supervisor uh is two years from retirement and she's like yeah I don't know what I'm going to be doing after so
05:44
she said it'll be kind of fun to have an older adult in the classroom and the idea is that you come from different backgrounds and different purposes for being there and then you learn uh whatever area you've chosen and my thing is we do a moment because I want to encourage you when I was in the interal conference in um South Africa in 2019 I got to know a lady she was I think 87 or something or 86 and she did her her PhD with 83 ah there you go there you go and she was good I mean she just needed some
06:27
help to to put it into into words her old life experience she worked with um the black community and the communication and everything in integral with spiral Dynamics and so it was amazing to to to witness this old lady and how she was alive unfortunately she died about two or three years ago but I mean isn't it amazing so you are in good company I wanted to say that all the people who are starting to to do these things you know yeah yeah and I think there's because one of the things you realize is that particularly like when
07:05
you've had the advantage to travel or or read read different things of of your own uh interest is there's a lot we don't know yeah and once you start on something if if you're curious then that can take you to some pretty interesting places and so for instance when I went to uh Italy last where we were uh uh in the south of Italy more when we went to Venice I understood that I knew nothing about Venice except that it had canals so then I came home and I read a book on Venice I didn't feel motivated to do it beforehand but
07:44
afterwards I did and then what I wanted was somebody else who knew something about Venice to compare notes with me and that way I would have had a social experience with somebody else who had a mutual interest in the same topic so it's it's creating those moments um with sometimes people you know I me people you don't know to say let's have an interesting conversation and get to know and exactly stay engag that way so these studies you are doing academically what are they containing and how do you uh
08:20
connect the the Aging thing with that so basically it's a it's a two-year program and the main core courses there's three are colloquium so we are going to get exposed to a number of different lectures covering a number of different topics that speak to the social dimensions of health so my interest is in older adult learning somebody else's might be in public policy somebody else's might be indigenous um growth or social isolation like we're going to come with very different uh goals and they they can't
09:00
tell me what the which each lecture is going to be yeah because the classes start next week but that's where we're all going to come together and be exposed to just a myriad of subjects supporting that are three methodology courses so and they're all from different faculties so you have to learn how to do research in the social environment and be effective so one of my courses is with a sociology Prof and one of my of course this is with the Human Geography Pro and I've never even heard of human geography before I had no
09:37
concept it basically refers to the social structures that uh it engage people and social structures okay uh and then uh specifically I'm going to have the the privilege of uh working with my supervisor on his course which is all about aging so the aspects of Aging specifically speically and then following that I will work with uh the number one guy youc St McDonald who's our expert on later in life and talks about living well to 100 plus uh and working with him on Aging so I'm allowed to specialize specifically in aging and
10:17
older adults in my electives and then bringing together this Myriad of views and are you also doing research on some topic with I mean uh also going with older people and collecting experience or what yes so that is why they focus a lot on the setting up the discipline of a methodology so that you can do your your Master's thesis in the second year so the second year is pure research projects uh I suspect having done a a methods course before uh that will do many many projects along the way in each of these courses it's just a
10:58
suspicion that go and try this method and go see how it works so I do expect to be doing some mini research projects before I come to terms with how tight is my thesis and have I what have I learned in the last year and what how do that maybe varied um uh what I started off with because I've just started so you know I find it amazing because you have a background in military no you and yes coming over to a complete different thing you know that's how did that happen well it is kind of interesting when you think about it so
11:37
yes I did start off within our armed forces and I was a naval Administration officer uh but what that meant is that I was actually dealing with people and policy performance Behavior leadership so the people side of change um and when you're in the armed forces change happens to you all the time so you're con constantly learning you're doing courses for in order to get promoted you're moving to new jobs every two years so there's learning and so this integration with other people and learning as part of how you spend your
12:14
life actually was pretty ingrained in the 16 years I was uh in uniform so it doesn't look like a social fit but in fact it's how do you lead and specifically how do you lead change as well as operating within a structure so operating within an armed forces environment is an environment but then when we go to society we still operate within an environment because there are social norms and there are cultures and there's policies and there's procedures and all those sorts of things so it's just switching the framework a little
12:47
bit okay I I didn't know that that you already worked sort of in the similar way so that you are doing let's say an additional uh academic Round Up sort of but yeah yeah yeah yeah and you know in between I worked in uh a business change so I've done change with uh uh governments and nonprofit organizations so again leading change within a structure and moving from how do we do things today to how do we think we should do them in the future so it it it's a similar path it's just that the road changes a little bit and who meet
13:27
along the road changes um but I'm I'm people say what are you going to do with this I'm like I have no idea but what I suspect I give it my background is that it will take me somewhere where I'm going to help advocate for increasing quality of life for older adults and I'm probably going to work in a different way with older adults to help them understand that it's possible that's there's more possibilities and so we're it's like can I open you up to the realm of the possible yeah that's that's
14:08
good I was thinking first of all it's you you are not too young anymore you are not old but you have found for you the what you want to do in the later years that's the first thing and then having gone through this experience and having the capacity to interact with people you easily can inspire older people because what I see uh in many cases when people go older then they what should I do actually when Mark died I had I had two years or three years and what do I do now you know it was I was I
14:44
mean I have enough to do here with the gardens and everything but is it this you know I was a little bit I continued a little bit to do the interviews and things but I thought is it this what I want to do in later years and then actually came Co and all the these things and and then I dived into into history and into all these politics and stuff and I thought oh dear what I didn't know on my life yes I know that's that's what happened to me too I'm like I don't know if I had an education I know I went to
15:18
school yeah it seems that we we didn't learn a lot in school no no I don't feel particularly um not to slam Canada too bad but the number of times I learned about the first hundred years of our country number of times it was a repetitive but I didn't learn enough about Europe I didn't learn enough about Asia I didn't learn enough about Africa and so now when I'm reading historical fiction which is very pleasurable I'm like there's so much you see the patterns of human behavior repeating the power the economics the
15:53
history opens up a whole new world you can also learn about the different uh uh perspectives with other cultures uh go into life you know and uh how we uh that is amazing for me how we let's say westerners think in a certain way and pretend that everybody needs to think this way but it's not I mean a Chinese person with a background of conf confusion ISM or how it is called they think a completely different way than we do and I didn't know many of these things you know and also political and all these things I was out
16:36
of not interested at all in politics you know and now I think oh okay you didn't know that you know and so it's it feels for me a little bit like you're doing but without University that I dive into subjects which I never knew about and which is you know like rabbit ho yes yes yeah yeah it is exciting and I think one of the other things is that despite the fact that I'm going back to a formal environment it's really just because I want to be challenged in a way that I don't challenge myself and I think I personally feel
17:19
that that was been a lifelong goal for me to get this far and because of my career and my husband's career we move too often for me to accomplish this but it's not just about going to a school because there are so many people who are in rural areas isolated areas maybe not of an economic um sufficient economic wealth to be able to engage in the things that people say they do for instance after retirement I'm going to travel I'm going to Garden I'm going to cook a golf but those are those are not
17:52
of necessarily available to everyone so how do you open a door for somebody who's in a very isolated area and how can you make community so we're lucky as you say in some cases it may have to be an online community but at least there's community and older people often struggle with the technical things so they need support with coming into Doom for instance it's not so difficult but imagine the older people also in the countryside have never worked with a computer never don't even know what it is and
18:32
that is much rarer now but a few years ago before co uh nobody of the older 70 plus uh knew how to to to talk I had many people that I invited them into how should we do that you know so it is wonderful that we have these means of of communication you know and so I tell you I live quite isolated you know know my place know if I hadn't internet if I hadn't Zoom I have so many groups now and and people to talk to but not necessarily here there are some people now experts As Americans or Germans with
19:13
whom I have contact but only lately in the last few years not before I would be dead let's say when if I bom because it's nice to watch the plants and work with animals and so on but sure it's not all you know you need it's not enough exchange exactly well you know and I you know just uh just that personal contact and you know it's the isolation because you know as we lose our friends and I've lost lots of friends this year it's been very hard as our circles get smaller we're not sure if we can make new
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friends or acquaintances and so people don't necessarily make that effort but actually there's a lot of people who could use some new friends yeah yeah sure and you'll find things in common yeah yeah yeah yeah internet you have the possibility to find them you know and when you have the basics of of interaction how to do this yeah and then in as in my case you have to create the community yourself if you want I mean you don't need to many communities around you can join you know that's also I find it and I think yeah okay go
20:32
ahead sorry and I think the other thing is even sometimes when you have a community so um you know we're seeing a lot of people who are going into um independent living assisted living long-term care but when we think about what kind of environment are we creating there and I think that's why this one fellow wanted me to come to his uh uh Assisted Living uh residents is what are we doing with people once they are in care are we actually creating communities in there are we enriching their lives are we
21:08
taking them on adventure so when I see um older adults bouncing a balloon over a dining room table and that's their activity for the day it may be convenient for the staff and I don't think these people have any lack of intellectual C capacity so if you take away the sort of dualizing of adults and put together a more interesting program why for instance would you run a series on hi we're going to Italy this month so we're gonna choose a story you can choose a romance you can choose a history we're
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gonna have some Italian food we'll learn 10 words in Italian every day but doing something that takes the uh engagement Beyond a simple activity so what do you talk about after you've batted a balloon not much but what do you talk about if you've attended a session information session and then you go have a coffee with someone who was in the same session right so the experience I I have a friend she worked here up there in the beginning of our road there is an old people's home something like that where
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you're talking about and she worked there and she said people come in still mentally alive and after four or five weeks they're down because staff has no time at all to to to do anything with them except you know the necessary care and then they are put in front of the television that's it and I mean that seems to be like you know like a place we're waiting for death uh you know and they are parked there more or less but um how do you think practically this can be we are in a capitalist um environment and everything should be
23:01
paid and costs a lot of money and so how how would you think that this is possible well I think that when people as you say when they come into let's just say uh supported living just to we used have so many terms for these things if they come in uh intellectual there's no reason why somebody else has to do it for them so for instance at one of our new residences um a woman she's in her 90s and she's a very established author published author does she need to go to something or can she create something
23:37
yeah so you shouldn't always have to pay for everything that happens in these care residences so to what extent can the community in those residences take charge of their own happiness versus completely succumbing uh to a an environment of compliance mhm and other people's schedules and what I hearing also from what you said before maybe inspire people before they go in these places to have their their subject of interest and be keen on doing it no yeah and so that it continues versus it it comes to a halt um so but if you
24:24
have to create that that space for people and sometimes uh when you go from a comfortable environment like your home to a new place you're just trying to fit in and there's so much adjustment so I think in some cases when this is why it's the area of study I'm doing you have to understand the environment what have you put people in and to what extent can they manage that environment because they're paying for it in some cases they're paying a lot so they should be able to say I'm interested in doing this as a program or
24:57
I'm happy to lead this or I'd like to see this you know I'd like to go on an outing that involves more than walking around a mall because sometimes that's all they do they go for a walk in a mall not even in great for exercise and bad weather but so I think in some cases this is where we have to take some responsibility for our own happiness but the thing that often stands in the way is a your own belief system that you can't make your own happiness later in life so we've we've said so many things to people like uh and we
25:35
know they're not true anymore so can an old dog new learn new tricks is one of my favorites because people say it all the time and we always beli they couldn't but in fact we can because we now know first of all it's important to keep learning for your mental health and uh also moving also going for because that keep life yeah right so we know that we have neuroplasticity uh which means we can learn new things so the the the important thing for with older adults is helping them understand that yeah you
26:11
know actually you started aging at 25 by the way so you've been doing this for a long time uh you learn differently you learn more slowly you may not learn as um you may not pay attention to some things that are easier for younger people to pay attention to but one of the things my supervisor told me he said Gina you know the the funny thing is about older adults is they just need a little bit more time on the exam they'll do as well as anybody if not better but a younger person may be able to complete the exam it's say in two and
26:46
a half hours and an older adult may need three and a half but the quality does not diminish with age so even when people get frustrated well I can't remember this or my memory is fading or no you you have to understand okay that's your environment but that's not just your limitations you have a different way of learning or a being EXA but you also have you have huge potential huge potential yeah and that's it's wasted when people they are waiting for retirement to sit somewhere on the beach you know and then what and many
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men especially they die after a year or two because they don't the life makes no sense anymore know and yeah and it's important to cultivate interests you know so to your point um one of the early stats we have for people uh leaving the Armed Forces is they would collect 22 pension checks 22 months because they lost their purpose their identity and their purpose so part of part of you know how do we shift our thinking about uh later life is if your original purpose when you were born was to go to
28:06
school and be a child to become an adult and then as a young adult maybe you became a mother or a father or maybe you went to school maybe you got a job whatever you did that part it's sort of like Society pushed you in a particular direction but imagine when you may not have to work you may not not have to raise a family um you can do what you want so really rather than this being a time of negative decline what if it's the super opportunity to become something that either you wanted to be or never dreamed of being but you can be
28:47
and if we look at it that way it doesn't have to be the same thing like I figure I've got at least 30 years to go so investing two years and figuring out what I'm going to make out of that seems minor nothing compared to the Investments I made earlier in life so yeah and I don't have to do it for 30 years like what if I only do the next thing for four years one year doesn't matter it's just long as you're doing something yeah but it's it is a question of a question of of perspective it's a question of also beliefs because I think
29:24
the problem when people die as as soon as they are in pension is that they cannot imagine they don't know what to do with the freedom they have now right seems like boring and not it has not the same worth the same value you know than before when you were a manager or something you seemed that's that is important and now you're nobody when you are out of your work and before you were you know everybody admired you and now there's nobody to admire and people who have created their identity around that
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they really have a problem to to know who they are themselves I would say a spiritual path would be good for yeah to learn a little bit who am I really am I only the the boss or whatever they did or is there a little bit more for me you know yeah how do I Define myself well I think one of the things that I've really appreciated is seeing what people um who came out of um very structured environments like government who had no idea what they wanted to do when they retired they just knew they wanted retired okay so they
30:38
retire then for some reason for no explanation they decide to take a drawing course because they didn't know how to draw okay takes a drawing course oh well there's some logic to this I can draw funny things now well maybe I'll take a pastel course oh this is interesting Maybe I'd like to try watercolors maybe the fact that I've seen a woman who's never drawn in her life after retirement her paintings IDI are so beautiful she says do you know there's at least 26 whites we can choose from so I love painting with white now and I her
31:16
paintings are beautiful she also didn't know how to read music she decided she'd like to learn the ukele lots of people older adults pick up ukele because we here in Canada we have program s available for that for some reason because it's not ined introduced in school okay she had to learn to read music okay she learned to read music she learned to play the ukulele she plays classical music on a ukulele all within a couple years of retirement and she would have never dreamed those things I would be
31:51
interested in what in US is allowing us to do this and what is hindering us not to do this you know how come that some people find the way and some just give up you know that's for me is interesting I have no answer on that but have you an idea I just think that we've Society has told us what we can't can't do and so we believe it and therefore we don't try and I think it's because it's very easy to just let things happen you if nobody else around you is doing something interesting as well yeah is important you know it maybe also
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the the inspiration that there's somebody around and says oh you you try that you know try it if they are alone it's difficult to self Inspire oneself you know yeah and I think the other thing is that you know we've probably you know in life we've made lots of mistakes we've had lots of failures uh we've been judged and in some ways people may say I just don't want to be judged anymore so how do you create an environment where let's say I thought well she learned to draw that I can learn to draw I I suspect I couldn't
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possibly learn to draw but knows that's okay if I tried it if I at least tried but okay well that's not it but maybe there's something else that I I I can do and so it's not that you have to be able to do everything but you know even just even just learning a song or getting involved in a choir or anything like learn to read music that way or learn new songs or a dance like dancing a lot of our various cultures have beautiful dances where your social interaction but you have to learn to do the dance yeah but there are also often
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other um contact dancing a friend of mine is doing contact dancing you don't have to learn steps there that's something different I don't actually know what exactly it is but it's not like a you a vaults or something you know so yeah but I think I think it's just a matter of where're we just we're not sure I don't think we actually ever had serious conversations about what do you do and I'm going to use 65 as a benchmark what do you do after 65 because that's what most people consider that to be senior
34:25
citizens um nobody talked about about it and so you weren't really prepared and there's a big difference between when we all lived together multigenerational families that the the elders or the grandmas and grandpas and the Omas and the opas would would look help do cooking help do cleaning help to look after children maybe Teach an art like a beading or a sewing or something but we just don't tell people we don't we just don't have those conversations and this is this is I think where you know the
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sort of work that you're doing where you have conversations with people what if we s said you need to prepare more for when you are not working or when you've raised your children um and just just have a way of looking at what is the real of the possible you know what I have an idea you should create a podcast and and and bring this into the world you know okay but I think I have a friend Heidi who has great podcasts who can who could do that I I mean with this topic you know to inspire people to find other people
35:34
who are in this mindset and and and find the success stories for instance invite them I don't necessarily talk about me but I talk about you to do a um this is a s of not teaching but it's it's inspiration it's you can you know you can do it this is the message that we can yes could be spread you know and by internet you know for these people yeah because you just need to work within whatever I you what whatever your means are you can work within your means and your capacity to find new new things to do so
36:19
if for instance you were used to being athletic but you can't be as athletic in the same way is there another way to be athletic can you inspire someone else because volunteering for instance is one of the greatest ways to connect with people and to feel good about yourself so alteristic Behavior towards others results in a feel-good feeling for you and you know lots of people uh they just they do volunteering and that's how they find their purpose in later life and it isn't necessarily about formal
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learning it's more about how to you maintain social engagement and interaction and feel good since so you get out of you have a reason to get out of bed in the morning yeah exactly like those blue zones they all say you have a reason to it up even if it it's as simple of tasks it doesn't matter doesn't have to be complicated just has to have purpose also the reason why many people like myself also but it's not the primary reason have animals and garden you have to get up you have to give them food you have to water the
37:24
plants and if you're feeling bad you feel bad but you do this you know and this is as soon as you are in a little bit let's say depressive State and you do all these things being up is already a big thing then to feel differently and then you see oh it's working I don't need to stay in bed and something you know so if it is animals or if it is some how do you call them grandchildren or or whoever that's we need to find the reason for living and we had sort of found it before in some way because it
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was attributed to us you find a job and you you have to work and blah blah blah and this seem to be the reason for life but maybe there are better reasons for living then then yeah and I and I one of my one of my um friends so I have I have a lot of friends who are in their 80s and she says I just need something to look forward to exactly doesn't have to be even tomorrow because if I get out of it tomorrow and I do something for me tomorrow I know that five days from now or even a month from now I have
38:38
something to look forward to so what you do between uh those events where something a little bigger to look forward to and the little things that you can do along the way exactly it's a little bit what I do looking forward to my groups or to the interview or something you know that's as sort of highlight of uh of the week let say no that's yes energizing it's it's yeah well look how look how long we took to plan this IDI you know so you know we we we get caught up in lots of things in between but uh I was very excited to
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just reach out to you again and say hey Heidi I co I've missed you uh and then you suggested this conversation so yes I had a a bit of a news story to tell with going back to school uh but also it was a it was a pleasure to know that we were going to have a conversation today and so it's been in my calendar is in your your calendar and I'm like yes I'm gonna get to talk to Heidi today and we'll see where that goes I would like to inspire people who are listening to this to create events like this you know and if
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you don't in the backyard then go online learn this little bit you need to learn for having conversations video and not only tele telephone because video is much nicer to talk together because it's like almost like if you were in the same room so yeah inspiration and and I think the other thing that comes with the the visuals is that we actually depend for communication on a lot of subconscious visuals yeah and you have to when there's no person in front of you you you don't get those Clues and you may be
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thinking the conversation's going well but maybe it's not or you want to see the joy in their face yeah because you've said something the way of interacting is different when I yesterday I had one person in a group only tele telephone and when she spoke I'm going then in listening and I'm not not connecting anymore in this way when I talk to you I look into your eyes and there I'm going sort of inward to be able to listen well yeah you know because it's missing these other Clues are missing which makes understanding
41:02
much easier you know so yeah wonder which is why we have struggles with email because actually email we haven't evolved to be good super good communicators in email we need those visual subconscious emails are always it's good that they exist but they are always a reduction of of possibility so many things can be misunderstood by writing while when we look at each other then it's clear what we mean it might be some ironic or whatever in writing the other person might not understand it you know so yeah
41:36
we can only encourage people to go and learn and something new and find the the purpose of the later years of of Life the sense of Life en jooy eny Joy exactly and it's not easy sometimes but it's possible it's possible that is message which I hear you giving to the world and that's wonderful and I thank you for this conversation and hope we could thank you somebody to get up with joy and do something it must not be important you don't need to World of anything you know but just in your in your possibilities so wonderful thank
42:20
you my pleasure Heidi yeah byebye for the moment bye I need to find the recording but where is it hidden there I think I stopped it no I the recording is not stopped up here tomb has changed the things okay
About Gina Donaldson
Gina Donaldson is the lead Partner of Personal Passage Planning, a service that enables individuals and families to proactively prepare for planned and disruptive life events. Most recently Gina decided to pursue graduate studies to enhance her understanding of how older adults can improve their quality of life through learning. She believes that we have not sufficiently prepared ourselves to proactively plan to better enjoy our extended life expectancy. Learning is recognized as one means to offset depression, social isolation and lack of purpose, however, the beliefs that society and older adults have about later-in-life learning make this challenging.
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