Retirement?

### Summary of Women Matters Meeting – February 2026

The February 2026 meeting of Women Matters brought together women from multiple continents—Europe, Africa, and North America—engaging in a rich, reflective dialogue primarily centered on **retirement, aging, and life purpose**. Participants shared personal experiences and insights regarding transitions into retirement, the emotional and identity shifts involved, and the broader meaning of aging beyond societal expectations.

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### Key Themes and Insights

#### 1. **Geographical and Contextual Overview**
– Participants joined from **four countries across three continents**: Europe (Vienna, England), Africa (South Africa), and North America (California, USA).
– Weather and personal circumstances were briefly mentioned, illustrating diversity in context.

#### 2. **Perspectives on Retirement**
– Retirement was a central topic, with varying attitudes:
– **Lorraine and Christine** recently retired; described the transition as challenging due to ongoing tasks and emotional adjustments.
– **Victoria** expressed strong resistance to retirement, emphasizing a desire to remain active and creative, fearing loss of purpose and identity.
– **Mona** and others viewed retirement less as an end but as a **“returning to oneself”** or **retiring from a role rather than life itself**.
– Several participants highlighted the **importance of maintaining purpose and engagement**, whether through creative work, social activism, or community involvement.
– Some participants, including Beatric and Han Lee, emphasized a more fluid concept of retirement, seeing it as an ongoing evolution of activities rather than a definitive stop.

#### 3. **Emotional and Identity Dimensions of Retirement**
– The emotional impact of retirement includes:
– **Loss of professional identity** and role.
– The challenge of **letting go of mental and emotional burdens** tied to careers, especially in therapy or caregiving professions.
– The shift toward **finding relevance and fulfillment through new roles**, such as volunteering or political activism (e.g., League of Women Voters).
– The tension between **“being” and “doing”**, with recognition that modern society often equates worth with productivity.

#### 4. **Aging and Longevity**
– Aging was discussed as a multifaceted experience:
– Aging is not just biological but involves **spiritual, emotional, and social dimensions**.
– The idea of **“longevity fixation syndrome”** was introduced—where wealthy individuals pursue extended life, reflecting an ancient myth of immortality.
– Examples like **Herbert Blomstedt**, a 100-year-old conductor still passionately engaged in his craft, illustrate how **purpose and passion contribute to longevity**.
– The role of **healthy lifestyle and spirituality** (e.g., Seventh Day Adventist community) correlates with longer life and wellbeing.
– The group emphasized the importance of **joy, presence, and engagement** in maintaining vitality regardless of chronological age.

#### 5. **Being vs. Doing**
– The conversation highlighted the challenge in modern culture to balance:
– **Being**: living in the present moment, embracing stillness and presence.
– **Doing**: engaging in purposeful activities and societal roles.
– Participants shared practices such as meditation, breath awareness, and body mindfulness to cultivate presence.
– The dog’s joyful, present behavior was used as a metaphor for living fully in the moment.
– It was noted that **age does not necessarily diminish the capacity for joy or emotional experience**, even if the body ages.

#### 6. **Community and Support**
– The value of connection and friendship was discussed:
– Authentic presence between friends seen as deeply fulfilling.
– A cynical view from Victoria’s mother that “friends are good for nothing” unless paid for was contrasted with the genuine human need for connection.
– Participants acknowledged that social support and purpose in community help sustain wellbeing in later life.

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### Timeline of Key Discussion Points

| Time (approx.) | Topic/Activity | Highlights |
|—————-|————————————————|———————————————————————-|
| 00:00–00:07 | Opening and personal check-ins | Weather, health, recovery, and location updates |
| 00:08–00:13 | Introduction to retirement discussion | Varied attitudes toward retirement; planning and emotional impact |
| 00:13–00:20 | Christine and Lorraine on therapy & retirement | Stress of therapy profession; joy in presence; impact of insurance |
| 00:20–00:30 | Victoria and Beatric on creativity and work | Struggle with retirement identity; possibility of memoir writing |
| 00:30–00:40 | Han and Mona on retirement and purpose | Retirement as transition, not end; importance of ongoing purpose |
| 00:40–00:50 | Discussion of aging and longevity | Longevity fixation; role of passion and health; example of Blomstedt|
| 00:50–01:00 | Being vs. Doing and presence | Mindfulness practices; joy in breath and body awareness |
| 01:00–01:10 | Closing reflections and future topics | Proposal for article discussion on aging; gratitude and check-out |

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### Definitions and Concepts

| Term | Definition / Explanation |
|——————————|————————————————————————————————————–|
| **Longevity Fixation Syndrome** | A phenomenon mostly among wealthy individuals focusing excessively on extending life indefinitely. |
| **Being vs. Doing** | The balance between existing in the present moment (being) and engaging in purposeful activity (doing). |
| **Integral Perspective** | A holistic approach recognizing complexity and integration of opposites, e.g., purpose and relaxation. |
| **Therapist Mental Load** | The ongoing cognitive and emotional effort therapists experience, even outside of client sessions. |

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### Key Quotes

– *“Retiring from a specific role, not from life.”* — Mona
– *“I want to die on stage, not wither away.”* — Victoria
– *“Find your joy and then find where in the world that joy is needed.”* — Hani
– *“Friends are good for nothing unless you pay them.”* (Cynical view from Victoria’s mother)
– *“Being present with someone is scary but tremendously creative.”* — Christine

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### Conclusions

– **Retirement and aging are deeply personal and culturally influenced experiences** that involve much more than ceasing work—they affect identity, purpose, and emotional health.
– Many participants view retirement not as an end but as a **phase of reinvention and renewed purpose**, emphasizing engagement in community, creativity, and activism.
– **Passion, connection, and presence** are vital to thriving in later life, often more important than chronological age or physical health alone.
– The group underscored the need to **balance being and doing**, cultivating mindfulness while maintaining meaningful activity.
– Discussions on aging revealed a **shift from fear of decline to embracing aging as an opportunity for depth and soulful expression**.
– Future meetings may explore the **positive aspects of aging**, supported by shared readings and reflections.

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This meeting reflected a thoughtful, multifaceted exploration of aging and retirement, grounded in lived experience, integral philosophy, and a shared desire to live meaningfully at every stage of life.

00:00:04 – 00:01:43
It’s the end of August 2025, and finally the women’s group is coming back together again. Still a smaller number of us, but I’m happy to see Lorraine and also Christine, who we haven’t seen much because of her job. And Mona, as always—I’m so glad she started all this about 20 years ago. I didn’t know there was no integrated women’s field before. So, we’re continuing our work in English. Please forgive me if my English is getting worse—I haven’t had any practice.

00:00:54 – 00:02:27

00:01:39 – 00:03:07
where others just visit, it’s nice. Yeah. Uh, so far we had a pleasant summer. It was not too hot. It had We had a couple of hot days, but not really miserable ones and we had nice nights. So, it’s we can’t complain about the climate change. And yeah, uh, I have nothing on my mind, so I pass on to Christine. Well, good morning. I’m from Carlsbad, California. I’m Christine and um, I’m able to attend this morning because I didn’t have a nine o’clock appointment. And uh, today is my one day in the

00:02:26 – 00:03:42
office. I will be here until 7 o’clock tonight, which is 10 hours from now. No way. So, it’s a long it’s Monday is a very long day now because of uh I’ I’ve condensed everybody in the office to one day uh in person and um yeah, I mean things are good. We had a I’ve had a nice summer. Lorraine and I went dancing Friday night. That that was a highlight. Um what else? Tom has retired. He retired at the end of July and he is calling it his permanent vacation. He’s not using the word retirement. He’s just

00:03:04 – 00:04:37
saying I’m on permanent vacation. And for some reason that lifts his spirits. Yeah. And uh he’s very busy setting up Icon 2026. And uh what else I’m reading? What am I reading? Wow, I just blanked. I just oh I read um I don’t know if this book this group would be interested in this. It’s called I am part of infinity. I am I am a part of infinity and it’s by uh Kieran Fox. He’s a um scientist and physician and uh Buddhist or at least a meditator. I don’t know if he’s Buddhist. um and he

00:03:50 – 00:05:20
wrote about Einstein and Einstein’s beliefs about uh cosmology and how uh really kind of going with the eastern philosophy of unity and how we are all one and he does an excellent job just explaining um Einstein’s viewpoint. It’s been an inspiring book. I’ve really enjoyed it. And one of my big takeaways then I don’t know this doesn’t this seems rather simple but it was uh it was a novel takeaway for me was that um western religions Judaism, Christianity and Islam think of God as a personal God. We

00:04:36 – 00:06:04
all have a relationship with this personal entity. Um, and Eastern religions tend to emphasize more that God is about unity. It’s about the harmony and the order and the beauty and and the oneness, right? The richness of the oneness. And that’s how Einstein saw it was um everything was orderly and in harmony and mathematics could help reveal u the ultimate nature of things, the ultimate nature, which would be then the divine and God. So anyway, if you’re interested in Einstein and his cosmic religion, that

00:05:20 – 00:06:39
that’s a good book. And that’s a long check-in, so sorry I I rambled on, but otherwise everything’s good and I will pass on to Lorraine. Um, yeah. Well, so many things are getting firing. Um, to get back to the transition thing, I’ve been um noticing what life is like without having a schedule of patients. And uh, you know, as you know, I mean, as psychologists, we tend to see people one at a time. So you’ll have hour a block of hours where you’re seeing this person, this person, this person, this

00:06:02 – 00:07:37
person. And at the end of the day, I guess I wasn’t realizing when I was working how these people were part of my life for sure. They they they sort of filled a need for me to connect and the connections are deeper than the usual connections. But after I stopped doing that completely and they no longer lived in my head, I found almost for the first time um uh that I craved being with other people and it’s sort of a you can’t hear. Let me see. Oh, I hear you well. Now I hear you again, but you’re fading

00:06:50 – 00:08:07
sort of. Oh, really? You know, I It’s probably this computer I need to replace. I hurt you perfectly. That might be Oh, did you? Oh, okay. So um so I’m I’m there’s there’s as I don’t know if you guys have experienced this but with retirement when it’s official and there’s no more people there are no more people you’re sort of looking out for or taking care of or whatever. Uh there’s there was like a huge vacuum in my life and part of me was anxious to fill up that vacuum. You know, it was

00:07:29 – 00:09:01
like I it just my whole life felt I don’t know unsatisfying and there was an emptiness there and I was I was getting anxious about that and then I started meditating again and I don’t know if it was the meditation or just allowing this process to unfold but I’m realizing that shaping my My retirement future is going to depend on my being patient with myself and letting it kind of unfold. My life before was like planning planning planning. You know, I always had a project or you know and I and I hadn’t

00:08:15 – 00:09:39
even realized I was doing that to the extent that I was. So letting go of a plan is a new experience for me and there are moments where it gets a little shaky. So, it’s been interesting watching my process and learning to trust that because that is very tricky. But also, I’m socializing more and it’s really fun. I mean, I feel like I’m having fun fun. So, you know, it’s um it’s an interesting it’s an interesting transition for me. And I and part of it is learning to tolerate the anxiety that

00:08:57 – 00:10:13
crops up, you know, not knowing about the future. Heidi, you were saying before you have a trust that things will work out. I don’t have that. Shall we first continue? You have already dived completely into the topic. Victoria around. Can you do a short check in and then we go back to the topic? Yeah. Hi everybody. Sorry I was off camera. I um I was actually swimming and um lost track of the time. So I could have I did come on right away. So I’ve heard I’ve heard um he heard everything,

00:09:34 – 00:10:56
but I I wasn’t um dressed yet. I was in a towel. Um so yeah, I’m so glad that to be back and see all of you. And um I got in very very very late last night um from Portland. Beatrice sends her regards. Um I flew up there for um she was asked to stage man. She works during the during the season she works for the opera uh the opera for the ballet but um the in the summer the ballet doesn’t perform and so she was uh asked to be stage manager for a contemporary opera um which was based on the life of uh

00:10:16 – 00:11:23
Jacqueline Dep Prey the great ch British chist who died of multiple sclerosis so it was a really interesting she just insisted she that I see it and actually her best friend who uh who’s from San Diego, too. So, he flew up um cuz he’s a chist and he has uh some physical health issues. Um so, that was very it it was a very powerful weekend. I won’t share anymore right now because I I can hear the tr the impetus of the topic. Um I’m trying to get rid I’m a little distracted. So, I’m trying to get

00:10:49 – 00:12:03
rid of myself. All I can see is myself. Um which is very disturbing since I just got out of the pool. Okay, here we go. I was on speaker, I guess. Um, so, uh, yeah, it was I won’t check in anymore about it because it would take hours. I I basically spent three days in tears. Um, it it was very intense. Um, not about the opera. I was hoping to to have the opera be a cathartic experience and cry for three days about Jacqueline de Bray, but didn’t turn out that way. Um, so I’ll leave it at that right now. and

00:11:26 – 00:12:42
um and yeah, the transitions. Well, the yeah, that that that is actually very relevant for me. So, um I’m going to pass it to you, Heidi, because I don’t think you checked in yet, as usual. I didn’t I didn’t uh Yeah. Uh I’m fine. I’m very excited and learning and learning and learning about the gene keys and about human design. And I discovered talking with stretchy PT is so important. It’s I learn like it is turbo learning. Uh it’s it’s crazy what I learned in the last few let’s say

00:12:04 – 00:13:38
weeks since I came back from Germany. I was uh three weeks in Germany. It was very rich also very tiring. I did 4,000 kilometers in that time. I finally have a newish car so that I could do the journey. And yeah, I’m really fine. And as for the transition, I think I am in trans really big transition since at least since since Easter and maybe we come to this later. I want to give you the opportunity to talk a little bit about your transitions and then we can go into into more detail. Victoria, you said your transition is

00:12:51 – 00:14:12
because you you wanted to kasis to because you try cried three days. So is this the transition uh indicated? I hope not. No, I hope. Um yeah, I mean I I’m I’m a little reluctant to bring it up in this context actually because um Okay. Especially because No, especially because of Mona. Um it’s okay. It’s okay. No, I’m so glad to see you guys. Um no, it’s it’s about it’s it’s it’s it was very very pronounced this trip. Um it’s the transition of of um you know the

00:13:36 – 00:14:50
motherhood thing and and having an adult child and and seeing I I just to the to the marrow of my bones feel like something is very very very wrong and so I cried for 3 days because I it I’m so concerned and um but I have you know it’s instinct so what do you do with your instinct? I mean, it’s just a difficult um uh difficult thing. So, I’m just hoping and praying that that I’m wrong and that Beatric is totally on on the right path for her and that she’s happy. I I said

00:14:13 – 00:15:29
to her, I said, “As long as you’re happy and safe, I’m happy.” Um so, I don’t know. Anyway, I it’s yeah, it’s a big topic, but but the transition is very clear that um and you all know me so well by now and you know the whole the whole sort of entanglement um because she is all I have left and she’s whether for better or for worse she’s the um you know she’s my focus just in so far as I don’t have any other heirs if I pass away I you know, she’s all

00:14:51 – 00:15:52
that’s left of my family. Um, not literally in terms of life and death, but in terms of relationship. And so, um, so I just, you know, hope and pray that she’s happy and has a good life and that, you know, I’ll do what I can to do whatever I can, you know, however I can be of service. But it’s just it’s a hard thing, you know, when you when your gut’s telling you something and you don’t know what to do with it. Like, where do you put that? Of course, it is. We have psychologists here and um I have

00:15:20 – 00:17:14
my whole team here in San Diego. So um yeah, it’s it’s complicated. Okay, Mona, for you transition. I’m still uh uh back at uh personal god and unity because I’m just now rereading Dawkins the God delusion and I just love it. He’s so pragmatic about everything. And somehow you you for me I mean I know Victoria has a a rather different view but for me it would be easy to live without a god. Uh I wouldn’t mind about the unity part from Eastern religions but that’s probably my Buddhist training.

00:16:20 – 00:18:26
Um, I wouldn’t say that I’m transitioning between God and no God, but yeah, it’s uh if I think that the world as such as it is, it’s so fantastic uh and So uh yeah eternal um with all the changes happening every moment and every second. I wonder why human beings had to make up a person personal god with their own back in the in in Greece and the the Romans with their own faults and and ambitions. It’s really it’s not necessary to have a god like that. Anyway, um I have been living without a transition

00:17:33 – 00:19:18
for the last couple of years. Uh we are reducing everything my husband and I and he’s his health isn’t improving but he is managing so and we enjoy our permanent vacation sort of. We have been enjoying it now for 25 years almost. So that’s a long time and we’re still not bored. And of course the grandchildren are continuity and it’s amazing how they how they grow grew up and how they tr choose their jobs and how successful they are. So it’s really a great pleasure to be a grandmother.

00:18:27 – 00:19:40
Yeah. So that’s about all I can say about transition. Maybe I will something else will come up. So I pass on to whoever would like to speak. I think Christine is still um well, you know, piggybacking I guess off of what Lorine said, you know, I’m anticipating what is it going to be like when I wake up and nobody’s telling me I have to do anything in particular. And it does seem like a void at this point. But what I’m finding is the days that I am not working, which are more I’m I’m

00:19:07 – 00:20:24
only going to work three days a week and I have four off. Um actually sometimes five off, depends. But it those days I really don’t feel that much of a void or a loss. Um I think it is more the emotional connection as Lorraine referred to. It’s it’s feeling very emotionally connected to these people. It’s not like I feel I need to fill my time with work as much as I’m going to wonder, you know, what’s going on with these people’s lives. You know, what is the what’s the latest chapter in

00:19:45 – 00:21:06
their story? Um because for most of them, I’ve known them for, you know, maybe a decade, uh a long time. So, it it will feel like I won’t know what else is happening with them, but I’m pretty confident I will feel okay about what I’m doing. Um, I don’t want to make any big plans to begin with. Kind of like Lorraine, just let it be for a while and maybe see what emerges. Focus more on having fun, doing fun things, going places, uh, seeing stuff. Um Tom and I are kind of on different wavelengths, so that’s

00:20:26 – 00:21:49
going to be tricky because I’m a person who likes to be on the go. Um I like to have experiences and see people and go places and he’s more of a homebody. So he doesn’t quite understand my need to be active and doing. Um, so he’s often not particularly happy if I’m going out yet again as in in his mind. So I try to limit that to a reasonable amount, but that’s going to be tricky. Um, I keep encouraging him to do more with me because he’s always invited. It’s not like I have to do it by myself, but a

00:21:07 – 00:22:22
lot of times I do end up doing stuff by myself or with a girlfriend like Lorraine or something, you know, going out. Uh we met Victoria, we met up with Victoria and my husband didn’t come. So, it’s it’s that kind of thing that, you know, makes me anticipate a little bit. What’s that going to be like? But I am pretty sure I don’t want to curtail myself too much. you know, I don’t want to uh not do things just because he’s not necessarily interested in uh coming along. So, I have I think I am giving up

00:21:45 – 00:22:59
the delusion that I’m ever going to get uh dancing lessons with him, though. I don’t think that’s going to happen. That’s the one thing I’m willing to concede, I guess, at this point. So, no, it it it’s a mixed transition for sure. I would like to add for the this topic as permanent vacation. I never had the feeling of permanent vacation although uh you know I had sporadic appointments and for a while I went almost every day to to teach and so but that’s a long time ago and as for the craving for

00:22:22 – 00:23:34
connections yes I have it and you know as I live here nobody around and that’s why I have you and other groups because otherwise I wouldn’t know how to survive without any connection any is not true But I have connections here around but this is not nourishing me while our conversations and the others which I have with the German speaking groups that is nourishing me and I I need that otherwise I wouldn’t know how I would end up and then I wanted to say I had a friend here he comes for 28 years

00:22:57 – 00:24:19
playing the tuba and he is now he starts to enter into permanent vacation as a teacher. Yeah. And I saw him changed already. He was sort of almost how will it be now? I’m h coming home. I don’t have to go anymore to school. But still I they have invited me for the next um celebration and how would that be then you know I don’t walk a thousand steps up and down the and then I you know all these things and I saw him sort of not as active as normally but reduced only the idea that although the school

00:23:39 – 00:24:55
year hasn’t started yet so that you wouldn’t even be able to go back to school at that moment at this moment. So he’s already was in anticipation of how will that be also he has his music his orchestra and playing everywhere and then but the structure what you also mentioned now the structure needing to get up every day go to school do this and that we have to we I don’t but people who are very used to this um normal day they have to find their own structure no I have it because I go to

00:24:16 – 00:25:42
my vegetable garden, give water, do go give food to the animals. This is my sort of structure, you know, and the appointments I have on Zoom. But yeah, so Lorine, back to you. Can I ask a question, Heidi? Do you have anybody living there right now? No, at the moment I’m alone again for two days. He went away uh two days ago. Okay. You know, along those lines, one of the things I’ve come to realize is how much of my life was spent figuring out what the rules were and then trying to figure out how to follow

00:25:03 – 00:26:14
them. There are times, and I’m realizing more now, there are times there are rules about certain things. I mean, sometimes it it’s the techy stuff that I can’t figure out, but there uh when I was working, you know, in part it was dealing with insurance companies. Somehow my brain is different. I don’t have what my ex uh mother-in-law used to say is common sense. I really don’t. My mind conceptualizes things differently. So, I have to work really hard to figure out, okay, what do they mean? What do

00:25:38 – 00:27:05
they want from me? And I realized I’ve carried a lot of anxiety about that. I I may have had a learning disability of some kind that I never realized. But I worked overtime to figure out what the rules were so I could get done the things I wanted to get done. And um and now it’s it’s starting to be very freeing not worrying about stuff like that. But it’s I’m seeing that’s all part of this transition too. Um so it’s it’s uh it’s an interesting process. Can I live without a set of

00:26:20 – 00:27:57
rules? I mean can I trust my own insides about it’s okay to do this? There’s you know and that almost relates oddly enough Monia to uh the concept of God I used to have the I grew up in Catholicism and a lot of it was very beautiful even mystical but as I grew older I had more and more crises of faith as they labeled them in Catholicism and I used to puzzle but didn’t God give me this brain pain to ask the questions. Why is it a crisis? I mean so there was so much confusion and the whole concept of God I’ve

00:27:09 – 00:28:36
struggled with for decades you know and uh you know and I started reading books like when God was a woman and I happen to come from a culture that uh Maltese Malta Malta has 30 or more ancient ruins of temples to the goddess you know so there was before the patriarchal Abrahamic God. There were there were divinities that were conceptualized in different ways. So, you know, and spirituality is part of my transition, you know. So, what happens to that need to connect to something larger than myself. So, it’s

00:27:54 – 00:29:26
that’s it’s just part of the theme. So, I empathize with your with your journey, Mona. Um, it it’s part of the whole transition thing. Anyway, I have no conclusion, so I’m just out there with, you know, sentences that run on. Sorry about that. Nothing to be sorry about. I think it’s very important this uh this topic. What do we do with our internal or external God? And it seems to be that we need a sort of belief in a higher reality where we can be part of. It seems to be I mean you

00:28:42 – 00:30:04
probably know it better that psychologists if you don’t have anything to adhere to to to to to get oriented with then you are sort of lost in life. You know when it’s all only the material thing then you Yeah, that’s crazy. I wonder if you want to talk about that also about the need of God. Let’s say you can call it different. I would call it universe or something. I wouldn’t call it God, you know. And I certainly don’t believe in somebody on a cloud with a long beard, but I do believe that there is a a power

00:29:22 – 00:30:49
of um how can I say which is greater than myself. And now with the experience with the gene keys and the the human design, what I get out of that, I think, wow, exactly. If I had known that before, I would have not to have struggled so much with why I am as I am because it’s just pre preset the way I am, you know, and and I after a long life, you see, okay, that’s exactly exactly exactly that’s that’s how it is. And you could see that only from your birth date and from your the place and the hour of your birth. And

00:30:05 – 00:31:53
then I think oh okay and I believe ever more that there is some sacred um order in in in life in in in in the world in in the maybe not only the world in the universe as I said and I’m getting ever more soft in the sense that I think okay that’s my place here that’s my my my task. And mostly of it I did with a lot of you know fatigue but I did that and I have a period now in which I’m really fine really sort of happy and and allegro what is it in in in in in English uh you know Victoria what

00:31:00 – 00:32:29
oh sorry um you also said with much fatigue So I smiled because that’s which doesn’t mean fatigue means effort. effort now. Allegro. Allegro mean actually means happy but it’s in music. In music they they they used it to like include like lively energetic. Yes, that’s what I feel now. And and the more I know I get to know also about my shadows which are connected you know you can never avoid the shadows the more I’m getting I’m getting happy. So strange. So, so far to to my uh transition time

00:31:43 – 00:33:14
sometimes I really am into crying about um being touched about these things which I get to know. So good. Life is good. Heidi, you Heidi, you mentioned since April. I was wondering what the time fra what the time frame means to you or what does that signify to you? because there were people here in the house for possible uh co-uh habitants and co-owners and so on and it was very challenging and then the the dog died and my car broke and so I was in a in um in a mood of of overwhelm complete overwhelm and I had a a closer

00:32:29 – 00:33:58
connection with one of these guys and really it it felt like a relationship and as soon as he was way it was all gone. And I I tried to to figure out what was happening. And so I dived further into what what was going on. And then I discovered the gene keys and worked on that. And yeah, and then one one thing comes after the other. I met another person only with writing. But that gave me the kick to going go deeper and deeper and deeper. And I don’t know it’s it seems like divine uh guidance you know in some way to me

00:33:14 – 00:34:28
and it’s very new for me to be able to say that so so lightly you know so so so happily because before I always doubt it is this normal or uh yeah you are not worthy enough to be and da da da da the whole thing you know you know and now I think oh Good. That’s it. Let’s see what is coming. So, I’m not really preoccupied at the moment what will come out of here. Maybe I go away, maybe I stay, maybe people come, maybe blah blah blah blah. We will see. So, I’m at the moment uh good with uncertainty, let’s

00:33:52 – 00:35:32
say, in this way. And this is my transition at the moment. It might change. That’s another transition. We will see. as I used to say in German is past it will fit past you know yeah it will fit uh and about uh maybe it’s your other words your higher self that guides you so maybe your higher self protects you and guides you and uh yeah this is one of the ideas I had I do think that the higher self is only another word for God. As far as you are God, of course, but um but the higher self is not really you.

00:34:42 – 00:36:04
It’s not depending only on you. That’s that’s much but it’s my personal higher self. Okay. I I have a a little wider one. Okay. Okay. Okay. so far to my to my story. I could also talk for two hours or three hours now, but I don’t want to. I give you the occasion. So, I guess the one of the themes I’m hearing is tolerating uncertainty, you know, being okay with not knowing. Um, and like Lorraine, I’ve always been a person who wanted to know. I I want to know what is the answer. What are the

00:35:25 – 00:36:45
rules? Uh I’m an enog one, so you know, it’s best to know what the heck’s going on. If you’re going to be a reformer, you got to know what the ground rules are. So, um yeah, the tolerating that uncertainty is certainly a challenge for sure. I think this is also the possibility we have in older age to let go of all these uh imprintings. I was like you. I want to know even now I want to know but I don’t want to know anymore like you know I I the knowing becomes more important but not defining you. Let’s

00:36:11 – 00:37:45
say in this way. Well, I as you were saying that I was wondering if the knowing is still looking for um ways to connect, you know, no not not so much knowing rules or knowledge at this point, but knowing how we feel connected to other people. what it means to be connected to the to the greater to the greater cosmos or beyond. Yeah. Yeah. Christina and I went to the integral con conference in uh Hungary as you know and one of the things they had there was something called a weirdoscope. So apparently

00:37:07 – 00:38:31
I know I know um this was a device I think that Christine helped me on the details on this. It was a device based on some experiments that went on at Princeton, I believe, and it had something to do with not exactly paranormal, but they they were measuring and I can’t even say whether it was energy or what, but they measure the um almost the connectivity of people in a room during something that’s going on. And they did this these two I think there were scientists British or one was Brit British who who did this

00:37:50 – 00:39:03
measurement throughout the entire conference and at the end of it um they were able to tell us which presentation seemed to generate the most connectivity stuff. What? So I I had a brief conversation with one of the scientists um before their they stated their conclusions and I said, “But what are you actually measuring?” And he just looked at me and said, “I don’t know. It’s it’s an entanglement thing.” I don’t know if you’re familiar with quantum entanglement from from

00:38:26 – 00:39:40
quantum physics, which is a fascinating concept. And if you can’t do calculus, I don’t think you could ever really understand this thing. But there is a way in which like I think the the theory is two particles leave a particular place and go in different directions. This particle has a certain action. This one mirrors it. I mean the other one mirrors it even though they’re separated and there’s no real communication between the two. So you know this weird concept is giving rise to very imaginative

00:39:03 – 00:40:08
ways of thinking I think and and sort of gives a little bit of a sciency thing although it sounds like magic but a sciency underpinning to this whole notion of connection that it could be really physical physiological or whatever um and it’s utterly but when the scientist said to me I don’t know what we’re measuring It’s an entanglement thing. So now I’m using that phrase for a lot of things. I don’t know. It’s an entanglement thing. You know, there’s a connection there that we can’t yet

00:39:35 – 00:40:47
define that is kind of thrilling. It I don’t know where it goes. Who knows? I don’t know. I wish I spoke calculus. I wish I could read more physics. Like Christine, I’m gonna find that book you’re talking about, you know, about Einstein. It’s fascinating the direction we’re all going and God is in the mix somewhere and the goddess and whatever the higher self the energies I don’t know it’s amazing to me comes to mind uh telepathy which is a fact that it exists and what is

00:40:12 – 00:41:27
underlying this for me this is the fields we are in energetic energetic fields and we can feel each other from now we are helped you know because we we we see each other. But if you are getting sensitive more sensitive and the clairvoyance they can do that uh they enter into the field for instance of someone and then they can see and receive uh information and I ever more believe that this is really possible and I think what you are saying that physics is sort of catching up to the intuition which many people for a long time that

00:40:49 – 00:42:07
these things are real. So let’s see what comes out of it. I do believe that it is real. Sometimes yeah think oh can that really be but you know in in the basics I do believe that we are influencing each other also on a distance you have to connect with the field. If you’re outside the field yourself if you don’t connect then nothing happens you know. Uh but uh if you connect um either consciously or unconsciously into a field then you will feel what is going on. You won’t know it and you

00:41:28 – 00:43:02
won’t get words probably out of it but you will your sens sensitivity will feel it and the more you develop it the more you will feel and that’s what I’m doing now. I tried to develop that to to be more able to to feel what is going on instead of thinking all the time. Yeah. Maybe the word sensing would be Yeah. something in between feeling and um Yeah. And what was the name of the instrument? Widowcope. Yes. W Y R D. Yeah. Yeah, I wrote that down. But it’s I know how on earth ridiculous

00:42:18 – 00:43:38
how on earth did the organizers of the intro conference find those people? I mean it’s that I don’t know. That would be Oh god. Hannah, was it Hannah Christine that she found most of the speakers, right? I think it was Hannah. Put all that. Do you guys know Hannah? Yeah. I I forget her last name, but yeah, she’s a force of nature. She’s um but she she got the speakers, so she’d be the one to contact about how she found out that would have an email address of her. I do it. Heidi, can you please send it to me

00:42:58 – 00:44:33
because I really I haven’t spoke to her in a long time. Yeah. But she was where she had a great connection before. Yeah. Yeah, I forget where in Germany she is. Yeah, she is in the north ke or somewhere in the countryside. I wonder Victoria how this is all landing with you what we are saying. Are you sure you want to know? Yes. Yes. Um, no. It just it’s it’s intriguing because it’s um well, maybe intriguing is not the right word, but I I I know I it’s the only way I can articulate this. I know I know God

00:43:47 – 00:45:11
in in my whole being. And it’s it’s whether I like it or not. I mean, when my husband died, I hated God so much. I would have been delighted to get rid of him completely. And the gender thing doesn’t that I don’t I’ve never been preoccupied with the gender thing. I’m I’m preoccupied as I get older with um see seeing the disparities with gender issues in in our society like down in this plane. But in terms of God, um I mean I’ve always since childhood anyway, um you know, there there there are

00:44:29 – 00:45:41
scripture passages talking about God as a mother that that I’ve always identified with very closely because God God has been mother and father and um everything for me because I’ve had a very dysfunctional family. Um so that doesn’t tangle me up. I I I don’t know. It’s I I I can’t, you know, it’s it’s something I It’s something I can’t um It just is as far as I’m concerned. So, it’s not a matter. So, so it’s interesting for me that when the conversation about believing this or

00:45:08 – 00:46:28
believing that or looking into this option or that option or how do you define this phenomenon or that phenomenon because for me this is just it’s it it’s all reality and even the speculations might be reality too. So, um, yeah, when I went through my period of really, really hating God, um, after Conrad, my husband, died, uh, I I knew back then, I don’t know where he is now, a a very, um, onfire evangelical Romanian pastor. Um, I just knew him, happened to know him socially. and um

00:45:50 – 00:46:53
and and they’re very much in the minority cuz Romania, you know, is mostly Orthodox. So anyway, he was just one of these very dynamic um people. And I So I was we were talking and I’ll never forget he he said he said, “You have the strongest relationship with God of anybody I’ve ever encountered.” Which I and I thought, “Well, that’s just ridiculous.” And I said, “Why do you say that?” And he said because you can fight with God that you’re so comfortable. He

00:46:21 – 00:47:42
said the intimacy is at such a level that there’s no fear. It’s just pure love. And if you’re angry and you and you hate in in the moment like like a child, you know, hating the parent or something like that that it’s it’s just the intimacy is so um now of course I’m thinking in German, which I’ve never found a word in English that’s the same. It’s not self-evident, isn’t good enough. Um it just is. It’s so natural. So, um, yeah, I I I don’t know if it makes life easier. It’s

00:47:02 – 00:48:12
it’s a good question, but it but it doesn’t ju just like the the phase of when I was hating God, it didn’t matter. There was no, in other words, I feel like I feel like in the in this conversation, what I’m hearing is like exploration and choices and beliefs or do I believe this? Do I subscribe to this? Will I check this out? Um, is this an interesting theory? Would it be interesting to incorporate this idea or belief into my life? Um, and for me it’s it’s it it just is. It’s

00:47:40 – 00:48:41
like it’s like if you ask me, oh, you know, do you like the idea of being a mother or would you like to be a mother or what does it mean to be a mother? It’s like the fact it’s already there. So then it’s a matter of just dealing with it. It’s a I I don’t know. That’s the only way I can explain it. It’s um I saw on the airplane actually a a film of bio biopic um about Tolken who was a very very very devout Catholic his whole life. And um and the whole Fellowship of

00:48:10 – 00:49:11
the Ring thing is, you know, is a is a basically a a metaphor um like CS Lewis. And um I mean this film didn’t deal with that but it made it it made me seeing the film made me think about about Tolken and how how interesting it is that how the world had you know I’d never saw the films cuz I I didn’t I don’t know I someday maybe I’ll see them but how the world just just lapped up you know just embraced this these films and everyone talked about them and everyone was seeing them you know it was

00:48:41 – 00:49:57
the Harry Potter before that but but Tolken is more profound of course and how interesting It is to me that that how he like CS Lewis, you know, he he was an apologist for his faith and it’s like people are taking the taking the um the fantasy and running with that and and you know embracing that and and sort of like I don’t know it’s it would be like like eating meat and you don’t want the protein content like like you just want the taste and the sensual experience. I don’t know. That’s a bad analogy.

00:49:19 – 00:50:17
Anyway, I don’t want to go on and on, but um you asked, Heidi, so um it’s it’s just intriguing for me because it’s not it’s like you can’t I you know, you you’re born with a certain body or a certain mind or certain like you were saying, Lorraine, the that um you feel like you weren’t born with common sense. I wasn’t either, by the way. Um so, so there’s certain things that just are and then it’s what what do you do with them, you know? So for me it’s

00:49:48 – 00:50:55
there’s never been a question in my mind about God because it would be like not believing that the sun is in the sky. It’s like it’s just not it’s not a matter of belief. It’s just you you this is how it is. And um anyway, I’m sorry that was a long-winded answer, but you asked. So there you go. Yeah, Victoria, this is very interesting for me and I think we could do another exploration hour maybe another time. also what we use for substitute God as you said the films and the the

00:50:21 – 00:51:46
stories are often a substitution for what we don’t want to admit but we still have this need of you know of magic of of of believing that there is a power who can save us and things like that so that would be also a a good topic but I find it very um intriguing that you can say It just is because at the end life is just you know when we instead of doing all these things it’s is and one of my gene keys goes into into being would be the last state of of of development you know from uh oh god I

00:51:04 – 00:52:34
forgotten what the shadow was but I I think hunger or something but adventure is then the the the gift and and Then the last stage is being just being. And I think it’s also what Bu Buddhist teaching is all about about being. And so I think we find all these things whatever direction you take it comes to the same at the end. To me this goes also into what Loren said. We are all conditioned to do and just being Yeah. That’s what uh I found out that being is just just being is is terrific.

00:51:49 – 00:53:17
It’s really great. It’s really great. Uh by the way, uh before we talked, you two, Lauren and Christine, they were so delighted about your boyfriend, Victoria. You never mentioned him. I want to hear more about your boyfriend. I don’t have a boyfriend. I have an an Emanuencis. Okay. Whoever he is, but he sounds terrific. Well, you’re welcome to meet him if sweeping up plants right now. Um, yeah, Christine and and Lorine, uh, seem very gung-ho. You’re you’re welcome to take him home with you next time we

00:52:33 – 00:53:55
meet. Oh, what an offer. Well, I for one, I’m sorry I boxed him in as a boyfriend. Sorry about that. I No, I’ve I’ve always had an aversion to that word because I I don’t it it to me it it fits in with that the whole discourse about God. There’s I I’m not I’ve never been a a like a joiner or a person that believed in definitions. I’m very aphatic in that sense, even about God. That’s why it’s a um things just are speaking of being it just is what it is. So um but Alfred is uh yeah he’s he

00:53:14 – 00:54:19
doesn’t I don’t have a definition for him. Emanuensis is the closest I can get. Um which most people don’t you know it’s a word that’s not in common parliament these days. What is it? What is the word? It’s just it’s it’s just an old Latin term um that means like uh it’s it’s basically like your the the p your right-hand man kind of thing. So So like some sometimes I introduce him as my secretary or my assistant. Um and and sometimes he he’ll write like a

00:53:46 – 00:55:01
email on my behalf. Um well basically I have to write it. I I’m a better writer, but but but he does the dirty work um of of being the being the the face and name. Um right now, in fact, it’s with the Austrian government, but that’s another subject. Um yeah, so it’s it’s uh well, you’ve all I’ve talked I I think I’ve referred to my late husband a million times. You all know him and um it just is what it is. He’s he’s irreplaceable and and um I miss him every day and every minute,

00:54:26 – 00:55:38
every second really. I mean, we were He’s It’s like half of my body is gone. Not Not just my body, my soul, my everything, everything. I mean, it was one of those relationships that that is miraculous. And um and I think a lot of Beat the issues with Beatric um are related to that loss too for for her. Um, and what we came up with when he died actually, I mean, we did tons of therapy. It was it was like the three of us together were a three-legged stool and when he died, one leg was just

00:55:02 – 00:56:13
chopped off just suddenly out of the blue and there was no balance. And we’ve never we never have found the balance, I don’t think. Um, you know, we do our best. Um so so anyway just to conclude um yeah but no I’m very grateful for Alfred he he kind of miraculously appeared in my life and actually opera poe if I was thinking if there were like a women and men matters opportunity um when I met him he was the just the most on fire like out of the box fan of Richard Dawkins that you can find on the

00:55:38 – 00:56:51
planet and he’s read every single word Richard Dawkins ever wrote and listened to every interview and um and now he’s a very very devout um well like me a Catholic with a small C we go to daily mass he’s the one that like if I’m tired or don’t you know I’m overwhelmed or something he says well I want to go to mass and so um anyway yeah you’ve got to go oh sorry to be continued yeah oh I have a meeting too so um Yeah. But anyway, that’s why Yeah, the word boyfriend isn’t right. But um

00:56:14 – 00:57:12
but to to be continued, I wasn’t hiding him, Mona. I wasn’t hiding him like in a closet and pretending he didn’t exist. Well, Christine Christine and I really enjoyed his company. Oh, he loved you guys. And and I’ I’m sending you an email. I’ve got uh because I what I heard in the in the conversation today about connection. Um we’re doing something tonight you might be interested in and also Friday. So, I’ll send you an email. And I wish Mona and Heidi, you were here.

00:56:44 – 00:57:40
Yeah. Anyway, um yeah, I have a meeting I’ve got to go to. They won’t let Speaking of therapy, I’m sorry that saying goodbye. Thank you all. It’s so great to see you. We meet again. Okay. In two weeks. Two weeks. Two weeks. Okay. Thank you. And frown on Brunan is Friday, right? Yes. Yeah. Okay. Anyway, it’s wonderful to see you. I missed you this summer. So, thank you and see you soon.